Template talk:Ukrainian oblast

Eventual problem

The oblast with the least amount of villages is Chernivtsi Oblast, and there are 398 villages in that oblast. To have a template listing all of the villages in Poltava Oblast (1,826) would be slightly problematic.

Again, I am in favor of something more along the lines of Template:Administrative divisions of Ukraine. Looking around at various different templates such US states, Canadian provinces, Irish Counties, Italian regions, German states, most do not list cities at all, and those that do do not list all townships and municiplaties contained therein. With that in mind:

I'm just brainstorming here...--tufkaa 17:23, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that we should list raions, cities, urban-type settlements and villages. But yes, I agree with you that when we get to Poltava Oblast, listing all of the villages might be a problem. I propose we do this: list the most known villages or the ones that already have an article, and then at the end of each section put more....

But I am not against all changes. For instance I happen to like the idea of listing the raions and their administrative centers, and at the bottom listing links to lists of cities, urban-type settlements, and villages like the last template you did in your sandbox.

—dima ^/sb.tk/ 17:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Very good solution.--tufkaa 19:56, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Tufkaa, let's be realistic. At this point there are not so many articles on raions, I would say, around 10. On the other side, there are 230 articles on cities, which is about half of all cities in Ukraine. I think, it's an indirect indication on what is more interesting for readers and editors. Thus, I think, at this point, cities should be listed in the Oblast template.

I agree with you that eventually we need a template for each raion; and villages should be listed per raion. But it's probably too early to do so. The first order problem is that we are lacking articles. Again, we have articles on 50% of all cities (but many of them are stubs), on 3% of all urban-type settlements (26 out of 886), and on 0.08% of all villages (23 out of 28,552).

You have been listing raions in a table for each oblast, which, I think, looks nice. I would say, this is the way to proceed. Taking it further, it seems reasonable to create raion articles, with the list of settlements of the raion. But given tha number of villages (28,552), it would be very time-consuming to do it manually. I guess, we will need a computer program, which downloads the list of villages per raion from Verkhovna Rada website, transliterates names, and generates a table. But, again, writing such program will also take time.

I agree with DDima, and I like the "more" part, which is needed for urban-type settlements, and villages. Also, in the list of Raions, I would drop with "raion" part of the name, i.e. [[Bobrovytskyi Raion|Bobrovytskyi]]. I think, this would make the template a little shorter, without any damage to the context. --MapLover 20:10, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I too am in agreement with DDima. Are you in favor of listing all cities (and leaving the more only for urban-type settlements and villages)? That shouldn't be a problem save for Donetsk (52 cities), Luhansk (37 cities), and Lviv (44 cities).--tufkaa 20:28, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with MapLover about dropping raion from the raion names. And, I agree with listing all of the city articles and more... for urban-type settlements and villages. —dima ^/sb.tk/ 21:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Subordinance

I am not good with tempates, so someone pls edit an extra field: "Cities of oblast subordinance" right after the list of raions. The "cities" field that follows should than be changed to "Other cities". This would be in agreement with {{Poltava Oblast}}. Regards, --Irpen 00:03, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, we are going the other way, listing all cities in one group. Please, see Talk:Subdivisions of Ukraine. --MapLover 00:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Problems

• And what about Oblast in Belarus or Russia? "Subdivisions of Ukraine". Please, Rename all Oblast -> Ukrainian oblast. Or add parameter {{Oblast|Country}} --Paukrus 00:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
• Done. —dima/talk/ 19:31, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

"of oblast subordinance"

Perhaps that phrase means something in the original Ukrainian.
Sorry, but it makes no sense in English. Varlaam (talk) 09:51, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

It means that that group of cities are subjects/subordinate to the higher-up provincial (oblast) administration rather than the more-local district administration that the province is subdivided into. Per WP:UE, perhaps we shall rename it to "Cities ... of provincial importance" or better yet "... of provincial administration" unless you have a better suggestion? --ddima (talk) 17:16, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

(My grandfather was Ukrainian, by the way.)

Most countries have a system where large cities have a separate legal status, whereby the mayor of a metropolis does not report to 5 people on a local council. It is not a unique situation.

So this is accurate, but too technical.

Most speakers of English do not recognize the word "oblast". (Sad, but true.)

Is it wrong to say "Major cities" or "Important cities"?

Then "..." can link to a technical Ukrainian definition of what a major city is, and that definition involves the oblast.

Varlaam (talk) 18:54, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Good idea, either one you suggested would be just fine and would be more reader-friendly. Currently there isn't an article on the subject, just a redirect, but I'm working on that sometime soon. --ddima (talk) 19:20, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

DDima, the template for oblast needs to be redone. Also "oblast subordinance" does not sound well. If you make it a uniform template like that, you will need to make a separate for Crimea, because it is not an oblast (province). My suggestion is to use a generic designation for the Ukraine's primary level of administrative division which is region. Ukraine has 27 regions: one autonomous republic, two cities with special status, and 25 oblasts (or provinces). Each region in turn is divided into districts and also contains cities of "regional importance" (or Regional Cities). Some cities (regional or with special status) may contain municipal (or urban) districts or be governed by a single municipal (city) administration. Non-urban districts (raions) may consist of district cities, urban communes (townships), rural communes (villages). Selected rural communes or villages may consisted of multiple individual villages or some rural settlements. All regions and districts are governed by an appointed state administration. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 03:12, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

As the status now has been abolished (all hromadas merged into corresponding raions) I am going to merge all the cities in the lists and perhaps add a separate section for urban-type settlements.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:53, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Will be implementing it now.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:07, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

 Done--Ymblanter (talk) 22:05, 18 March 2021 (UTC)