Talk:Teletype Corporation

Teletype Model 12 in aircraft in 1922?

The note that a Teletype Model 12 was used in an aircraft in 1922 is interesting. The reference is to a picture in the Library of Congress.[1]. It doesn't show a Model 12; that's some kind of tape printer. The Model 12 is a page printer. The New York Times has a story.[2]. It doesn't say what aircraft was used, though. Few planes flying in 1922 could carry all that heavy gear. --John Nagle (talk) 18:48, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Great catch John. I did a little poking around and found that U.S. Patent No. 1,485,212 seems to cover this project. A number of mentions about radio telegraphy and some details about some pre-testing between the US Naval Aircraft Radio Laboratory and the Bureau of Standards, both in DC, are included. I can't quickly tell the model of the teleprinter from the drawings but maybe you can. Here is a direct link: http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=01485212&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO2%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-bool.html%2526r%3D2%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526co1%3DAND%2526d%3DPALL%2526s1%3D1,485,212%2526OS%3D1,485,212%2526RS%3D1,485,212&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page 73 Wa3frp (talk) 22:49, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

John, I just read the New York Times article. If you review it, you will see that they only brought the keyboard for the Teletype on the plane. Maybe to save weight! That sure looks like a Model 12 Keyboard. Look at the picture of the Model 12 at http://www.baudot.net/teletype/M12.htm What do you think? Wa3frp (talk) 23:44, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

It looks like a Model 11 typewheel-type tape printer. The parts manual for the Model 11 is available [3] and on page 2, there are pictures of a keyboard/printer model and a printer-only model. The NYT photo clearly shows a Model 11 keyboard/printer with the cover off, "Teletype" scroll logo and all. So it's not an earlier Morkrum machine. (The big round tube on the right of the machine is a variable resistor, probably to adjust for battery voltage, and not a standard Teletype accessory.) It makes sense that they would have taken that model on an airplane; it was smaller, lighter, and better able to operate while mobile than a Model 12. The NYT article says they were going to try 2-way next. --John Nagle (talk) 18:21, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Definitely a Model 11. Detailed pictures match.[4]. Very rare. Only 883 made, and only one unit still exists, at the Technical University in Delft, Netherlands. The Model 11 needs to be moved from the Morkrum section to the Teletype section; the Model 11 was the first to bear the Teletype scroll logo. The Model 11 seems to be the last of the typewheel machines (except for the 5-A stock ticker) until, decades later, the Model 33. --John Nagle (talk) 18:46, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

I did the first part of the edit and moved the sentence about air to ground communication to the Model 11 tape printer. Not sure about moving the Model 11 to Teletype Corporation since it started in production in 1921 and was produced under the Morkrum Company name until 1925. From 1925 to 1927 they were produced under the Morkrum-Kleinschmidt Company name. It is true that all were branded as "Teletype". But this was just a product branding and not the name of the production company. Do you concur?Wa3frp (talk) 23:42, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

That's reasonable. Teletype and Morkrum were the same company; it was a name change, not a merger. Ads of the period say "Teletype Corporation, Formerly Morkrum-Klienschmidt Company". Incidentally, ads for the early tape printers say "It is used primarily for messages of a transitory nature, although a permanent record can be obtained by using gummed tape and pasting it on message forms".[5] (link from eBay, not permanent). That's useful to know. Western Union used tape printers with gummed tape to create telegrams on telegram forms, but railroads used it more like instant messaging. So the email/IM distinction goes back that far. --John Nagle (talk) 06:11, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

That's correct. First came Morkum and Kleinschmidt as separate and competing companies. Then, the merger of the two companies into Morkrum-Klienschmidt in 1925 and finally the name change to Teletype Corporation in 1928. "Teletype" before 1928 was a brand name only. The Western Union Telegraph Company named "2B" strip printer, still used in the 1960s when I was starting at Western Union, was the Teletype Model 14 tape printer and it was a workhourse. Wa3frp (talk) 17:02, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Kleinschmidt

I was a Teletype mechanic in the Navy, 60s, and worked on Model 28s which I liked. There were Kleinschmidt machine around too; the Air Force guys got to work on those. The story I recall is that Mr. Kleinschmidt had been bought out long before — with a 35-year non-compete agreement. When it was over, he got back into the business, and came out with a very interesting teleprinter. Where I was stationed they were running at 115 wpm (IIRC) which was a little hard on them, but they worked. I didn't at all like the noise they made with the cover off and successfully argued that since I was in the Navy I was expected to know how to work on 28s. ;Bear (talk) 03:21, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

The Teleprinter page talks about Kleinschmidt's later business in the Teleprinter#Kleinschmidt Labs section, and that links to the Kleinschmidt Inc page for the new company. It looks as if it wasn't a 35-year agreement, though, given that Kleinschmidt Labs opened in 1931. Guy Harris (talk) 06:11, 19 May 2015 (UTC)