Talk:Soraya Martinez Ferrada

Martínez

Please do not remove material that is appropriately sourced. The person is named Soraya Marisel Martínez Ferrada as per the official electoral list (padrón electoral) of Chile, which is available right now in its most current version (2022) here [1]. Her full name is mentioned. --Bedivere (talk) 22:47, 9 June 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by AndréLegault (talk • contribs)

You are showing me a name on a list for the chilean election on which there is no accent on the names. Nothing shows that the person listed is the Canadian politician. She resides in my federal electoral district where she is my MP. She doesn't reside in Chile.

She is registered as a M.P. under the name of Soraya Martinez Ferrada. See : here. AndréLegault (talk) 23:12, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

The list is meant to reference her full name. As I suggested on the French Wikipedia, I will upload her birth certificate which explicitly spells her surname MARTÍNEZ instead of MARTINEZ. Bedivere (talk) 01:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

there you go! I will use it to document her actual birth date and parents, too. You should do the same in the French Wikipedia. --Bedivere (talk) 01:32, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 9 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. —usernamekiran (talk) 20:45, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

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Soraya Martínez Ferrada → Soraya Martinez Ferrada – Official name of the person, as used by the Parliament of Canada See : here Name was changed with a name on a chilean electoral list as source. There is also no accent on the list !!! AndréLegault (talk) 23:25, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

• Strong oppose She was born a Chilean. The family name is Martínez, as everyone uses accents in Spanish as they should. The list references the full birth name. It isn't surprising the English language Parliament of Canada site doesn't use an accent, but it may be because English speakers mostly do not use accents on words (they rarely do and when they do, it's usually for foreign words). I suggest you not to remove the references again, as you have done. Moving it to the suggested title would not only be incorrect but also would despise her heritage. --Bedivere (talk) 01:23, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

  A similar thing has happened with the article of Osvaldo Núñez, which was mispelt as Osvaldo Nunez, while he always used the Osvaldo Núñez name. See his 2010 book which he authored as "Osvaldo Núñez Riquelme", not Osvaldo Nunez. The Parliament of Canada may write the names of its current and former members as they like, but that doesn't mean they are correct. Bedivere (talk) 01:48, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

  You're wrong. The English language Parliament of Canada site does use an accent. See Alexandra Mendès site. It does in French also.

  Sometimes, people change the spelling of their name. Mrs. Martinez Ferrada probably decided to drop the accent. She is my M.P. and in all her leaflets, there is no accent. It's her choice. It is she who must decide if she keeps this accent or not. She decided not to.

  Also, no media adds an accent on her name. But, if you want, you can contact her to ask her why she doesn't put an accent on her name. Here is his email address :Soraya.MartinezFerrada@parl.gc.ca

  If she decides to add an accent. I'll be glad to rename the page.

  Cordially, AndréLegault (talk) 02:10, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

  It is not my duty to go and ask her how she prefers to write her name. Legally it is Martínez (as shown in birth certificate linked above). It's not strange that English-speaking media and websites drop the accent. However Spanish-speaking websites and media, including those of Canada, use Martínez instead of Martinez. Chilean websites cite her as Martínez Ferrada: see El Dínamo, El Mostrador, Radio Bíobio, UCV Radio, La Nación, and most importantly the Presidency of Chile. I am not sure why is it so difficult for you to correct the spelling of the name, when Martinez is obviously wrong as repeatedly proven specially out of her birth certificate and the padrón electoral (which lists her full name Soraya Marisel). Also, her cousin Leonardo Soto also spells her name Martínez. Bedivere (talk) 02:17, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

  But per WP:UE, we prioritize the spelling used in anglophone sources. The Spanish-language sources do not carry much weight when the accent-less spelling is established in English-language use. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 00:16, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support. The Parliament of Canada website is a good, up-to-date view of her current preference. It's not some sort of font issue, other parliamentarians display accents just fine (example: [2]). As a note, on the Chilean electoral list argued about above, nominator is correct that it does not include an accent either (which is why it's bizarre Bedivere offered it as a source that the accent is used), but it seemingly doesn't include accents in the "last name" ever (i.e. every Martinez was listed as "Martinez", no accent) - maybe for some weird alphabetical order issue? So I'd call that one a null tell, impossible to say. Anyway, presumably Ms. Ferrada knows her own name, so we should trust whatever she submitted to the Parliament of Canada per WP:ABOUTSELF. (If it turns out this was a data-entry error or something, then it can always be updated later uncontroversially.) SnowFire (talk) 02:18, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

  @SnowFire I don't think I was clear enough. The list was meant to reference her full name. The birth certificate does reference the spelling of Martínez. Should be a no brainer! I'm surprised. Kind regards. Bedivere (talk) 02:19, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

  Sure. But the argument here is that she changed her name, so all these old sources only attest that her name used to be Martínez with an accent. Cassius Clay became Muhammad Ali, Eduard Lasker became Edward Lasker (and apparently some obscure fellow named Jizchak Lasker became Eduard Lasker!), Bruce Jenner became Caitlyn Jenner, etc. Those were all somewhat obvious changes, but subtle name changes happen too, like dropping or adding an accent. Do you have a recent source that shows her (ideally, as close to her as possible, not a third party like a newspaper story) spelling her name with the accent? SnowFire (talk) 02:32, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

  I obtained the birth certificate just now, actually (one hour ago). I will follow André's suggestion to email her, but I am not sure I will get a response for such a trivial issue. Bedivere (talk) 02:34, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

  Yeah, sorry if it sounds like a request for a shrubbery. I suspect an email might actually be the best option to resolve this. I'll add as well - not saying this is what's happening here - but some people also go by different names in different languages. This is more a practice with English-speaking people of Chinese descent, where they'll go by an Anglo name in English media and a Chinese one in Chinese (e.g. Jackie Chan / Fang Shilong), but it means that sources in Canadian English are more important than ones in Spanish, leading to a possible divide between article titles on English Wikipedia vs. Spanish Wikipedia. SnowFire (talk) 02:53, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

I knew Osvaldo Núñez when he was president of his union, before he ran for politics. I have just corrected his name on the French version of Wikipedia. However, his case is different since we can find several examples of the spelling of his name with the "ñ", including his LinkedIn page. While on the Facebook page of Soraya Martinez Ferrada, there is no accent. Neither in the media. AndréLegault (talk) 03:13, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Note : On the french version of Wikipedia, a decision was taken to keep the original name (Soraya Martinez Ferrada) without the accent. All secondary sources dating back to 2005 mention the name without an accent. I still included her name at birth in the text.

All secondary sources in the english version also mention the name without an accent. The title of the page should go back to the original title (without an accent). --AndréLegault (talk) 23:18, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support for similar reasons to why I (successfully) nominated Pablo Rodriguez to have the accent removed from the page title. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 00:17, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support She has her own choice to choose her name. She chose not to put the accent. Shwcz (talk) 08:17, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.