Talk:Power Rangers Mystic Force/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Mystic Wizards/Titans

Is there a difference between the Mystic Wizards and Mystic Titans. I thought the wizards were like Udonna, Daggeron, Calindor (before he was corrupted by evil and the Titans were the Minotaur, Fairy, Phoenix, etc. --Candyo32 19:11, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The Mystic Wizards are the five great warriors who fought against the forces of the Underworld in the Great Battle. Udonna's husband Alianbow was one of them. The Mystic Titans are the Power Rangers' zord forms. The Ancient Titans are ancient beings that the Mystic Force Rangers and the Mystic Wizards got their powers from. See the Heavenly Saints in Magiranger for the Ancient Titans. Ryulong 20:11, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

You really shouldn't point someone in the direction of Sentai, they are very different shows.--RangerKing 01:40, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Regardless, the Ancient Titans/Heavenly Saints are seen during the Rangers' Morphing sequence as well as during one of the Titan Megazord Finisher moves (the Spirits of the Ancient Titans/Titan Slash attack). The Mystic Wizards got their powers from the Ancient Titans, too. Think of the Mystic Rangers as higher-tech Mystic Wizards. Ryūlóng 01:43, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

That really doesn't matter. They are two different shows, no matter how you cut it. As far as you know, there will never be a storyline about it.--RangerKing 04:39, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

But they are still different sets of characters. The Ancient Titans give their powers to the Mystic Wizards and to the Mystic Rangers. The Mystic Rangers transform into the Mystic Titans, which are also powered by the Ancient Titans. And the Ancient Titans have been used through the fight footage and the morphing footage. The Mystic Wizards were merely in the prologue sequence. Ryūlóng 04:43, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Let's think logically, has this ever been said in the season? No it hasn't. Of course I wouldn't expect you to know that due to the fact you've only seen a handfull of episodes.--RangerKing 06:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

So? In the episodes I have seen, the beings known as the Heavenly Saints in Magiranger are featured during the Mystic Rangers' morphing sequences. And when the "Spirits of the Ancient Titans" attack is used, the footage shows the Heavenly Saints as well. It may have not been said by the show that Disney has named the Heavenly Saints the "Ancient Titans", but based on the evidence in the show itself from the dubbed Magiranger footage, the Ancient Titans are the beings shown during the previously stated sequences. And stop mentioning that I haven't seen the entire series, so far. I have watched a handful of episodes, but I have also seen a few episodes through online services such as youtube and the Jetix player. Ryūlóng 06:45, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Daggeron's Wizard

Could Daggeron have been the Yellow/gold Mystic Wizard before come the Solaris Knight? Candyo32 18:02, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

No. The Yellow Mystic Wizard had the power of Lightning and Daggeron has the power of the Sun. In Magiranger, Daggeron's counterpart was simply one of the Heavenly Saints, analagous to the Ancient Titans in Mystic Force. The same goes for Callindor, he was simply another magical being that turned evil. Ryulong 19:02, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Also Daggeron and Calindor were fighting at the time the five Mystics and Niela were fighting the forces of the underworld. Hint: Notice why Koragg isn't seen in any of the flashbacks and he seems to be able to wield the element of fire?--RangerKing 01:39, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

"Morlocks"?

Why are the villains (or at least some of the villains) referred to as Morlocks? I read about the Morlocks in another article and the "Morlocks" from Mystic Force are nothing like the true Morlocks mentioned in the article. How did the term "Morlock" come about anyway? I know that originally the Hidiacs (and maby the Styxoids too) were going to be referred to as Morlocks but how did the name come about for the whole villains group? They are never called "Morlocks" in the show at all. And where did someone find out that the Master of the Underworld's name is Octomus? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Unknown Dragon (talk • contribs)

I'm not sure where "Morlock" comes from, but Octomus is mentioned elsewhere and was then released to Rangerboard. I'm going to check on this. Ryulong 07:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Morlock may have been the early name for all of the Underworld forces. I don't know if it has been used, though, in the series. I've only been watching intermittently since "The Gatekeeper". Ryulong 07:21, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The term "Morlocks" has never been used in the series and was only used in I believe the press sheet that came out before Mystic Force aired. Also, what makes you qualified to edit this page if you have only been watching since the Gatekeeper? Trekkieb47

Since when does one have to be "qualified" in a subject to edit its Wikipedia page? I have seen Inner Strength, Ranger Down, all of Dark Wish (I was the one to write out the bulk of its summary while I was watching it), and while I still can watch it while I'm not at school, I'll continue to watch. Ryulong 19:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

You don't have to be "qualified", but the more you've seen of something, the more knowledge you have of said thing. Taking people's word for things is the number one way to get some bad info.--RangerKing 01:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

This from a guy who was kicked off a message board for spouting BS. The irony...ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 05:41, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Steedergon Fury Megazord

During the opening credits for Mystic Force recently they've shown the Steedergon Fury Megazord (Saint Kaiser for Magiranger), but that combination only appeared in the "Bride of the Infershia" movie, does anyone know by chance if they are going to make an episode/movie of PR: Mystic Force based on the Bride of the Infershia movie? Or did they just use the Steedergon Fury Megazord/Saint Kaiser for the toyline?Unknown Dragon 22:54, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Saint Kaiser did appear in the series following its appearance in "Bride of Infershia". It will more than likely appear in Heir Apparent, Part II in which the Steedergon Fury will fight the Centaurus Wolf (if memory serves). Ryūlóng 23:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it was in Stage 34, and it's vs. Chimera (and WolKaiser VERY briefly), for the record.Grz 23:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I assume, then, that the Stage 34 adaptation is coming up, as the Chimera monster was already made in Part I of Heir Apparent, and the information on the second half has been mentioned to show Leanbow transforming back. Ryūlóng 23:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

HA Part 2 will be the Stage 34 adaptation. The Rangers'll escape, Nick will destroy Chimera, more Koragg vs. Nick, then Octomus' "revival".Grz 00:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I thought that following the Koragg vs. Nick, the Ten Terrors (Infershia Pantheon) would arise. Ryūlóng 00:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's kind of a "false revival".... You'll see. But yeah, the Hades Gods will show up in The LightGrz 01:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Blue Mystic Wizard

Does anyone but me think that the Blue Wizard is a female. (1) In Heir Apparent Part 1 a closeup shows more of a female than a male but a (male/female) with long hair. (2) The Blue Mystic Wizard could not have been a male because Madison is the Blue Ranger and a male symbol would not have been the mermaid, therefore could not be a male. Candyo32 01:52, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I am not that sure. I would definitely have to pay attention when the episode will air again (which will more than likely be this Friday before the airing of the second half) or check a youtube clip. I thought that the Blue Mystic Wizard was male when I first saw it, but you could be right. Ryūlóng 02:27, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

No. The Blue Mystic Wizard is a man. He is wearing the same clothing that the Yellow and Green Mystic Wizards and Leanbow after he transformed from Koragg to his Ancient Mystic Mode and then as a human. The Pink Mystic Wizard wore something different, and was obviously the female wizard's/sorceress' garbs, where the Yellow, Green, and Blue wore the male wizard's/sorcerer's garbs. Ryūlóng 02:38, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

But how could the titan be a mermaid? It could not be possible! That would mean the Blue Ranger would be male also. 66.194.114.163 14:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

It just is. It's the same reason why so many Yellow Rangers in the US were female and male in Japan. Ryūlóng 21:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

But don't forget that Madison's counterpart (Urara/MagiBlue) was a female, so that couldn't have been a legible excuse. Candyo32 00:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

First, please stop making new headers about the same topic. It is easier to respond in this one. Second, while yes, Urara and Madison are both women, it has been a common practice that Yellow Rangers that were men in Super Sentai, were made into women for Power Rangers. Regardless of the fact that the Blue Mage is represented by a Mermaid, Disney decided to make the Blue Mystic Wizard a man. It is clear that he is a man when watching the clip from Heir Apparent, Part I. He is wearing the same tunic/outfit as the Yellow and Green Mystic Wizards, and later on, Leanbow is wearing the same. The Blue Mystic Wizard also made a very masculine grunt when he was thrown against a wall/column/something, and the Pink Mystic Wizard was seen wearing a different outfit than the others, and she was a woman. It's another plothole/unexplained situation that occurs in the translation; similar to how we haven't officially seen any sort of Ancient Titans/Heavenly Saints (Flagel, Bolgel, Spagel, Wingel, Groungel) (yet). Ryūlóng 01:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the Blue Mystic actor was a man, as well as the Pink Mystics, I rewatched the episode 5 times and saw that all the actors were men, probably because they couldn't find female stuntmen willing to do Power Rangers unless they were getting credit, most likely. Myzou 02:32, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Trivia section

Does anybody else think that this is unnecessarily long? While I personally would push for the removal of all "This is the second (+) season to..."'s, I think that, at least, we should make a cutoff (I was thinking maybe 3), and remove all notes with numbers past that (i.e. "This is the fourth/fifth season to..."). I also think we should get rid of all the seemingly unrelated trivia (like how the Xenotome is like the Book of Shadows from Charmed). Any arguments for or against either movement? Grz 05:40, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

This is what happened with Power Rangers: S.P.D.'s trivia section. Cull whatever you find too trivial. Ryūlóng 05:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Yet when I culled the S.P.D. trivia, it was restored to what it was originally.RangerKing 15:57, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Episodes

Due to my recent discussion on whether or not the logo for Power Rangers: Operation Overdrive that has been accepted by the online communities as official, it appears that the users who felt that I was wrong also feel that because the logo that they feel is official is not to be included, than any episodes that are equally released early through the online communities should also not be included on Wikipedia. Before any sort of final decision is made against our wills, what should be done in this situation? Ryūlóng 03:29, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, if this is solely about my endorsement of the protection of Operation Overdrive, then I have the following statements:

• There is a major difference between an episode title (or a small group of episode titles) and the logo that can be utilized as a computer wallpaper, and cannot currently be released on Wikipedia due to fair use policies.
• Episode titles have been continually released or leaked to the public; there have also been instances where the outcome of major game shows have been leaked. The episode titles are also one or two words long.

As for the logo, here are the reasons why it cannot be used inline on Wikipedia currently:

• It is not from a television screenshot, such as being taken from the opening sequences of the show, because the television series is either in pre-production or normal production.
• It was also released by someone within the fandom who has connections, and he then proceeded to upload it to his personal webspace, not link to it from its original website, because that site is password protected.

I am not saying that the source is unreliable, it is just that currently, without a descent source for the image itself (where it was acquired) it cannot be used inline in the article or uploaded to Wikipedia, and may be deleted for lacking a source. Ryūlóng 04:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Because of the constant edits to remove the information to make a point, episode titles will only be listed here until they are released on TV Guide's website, or if there is a screenshot provided of the page that lists the new episode title. Ryūlóng 06:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Series Name

I'm curious. If this guide is going to refer to the series as "Power Rangers: Mystic Force," why is it linking to IMDB, which refers to it as "Power Rangers Mystic Force." Moreover, why is this guide linking to IMDB PERIOD? If IMDB is a reliable source, I'm Walt Disney. JPG-GR 02:15, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

This isn't a "guide." It's an encyclopedic article. The series name is disputed. It can be "Power Rangers: Mystic Force" or "Power Rangers Mystic Force". However, Disney materials treat "Mystic Force" as a subtitle to "Power Rangers", just like Disney materials treat "Operation Overdrive" as a subtitle in their press release. Ryūlóng 02:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

As such, all Power Rangers articles are treated as titles with subtitles, with colons. Ryūlóng 02:33, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Can you provide a link to material that refers to "Mystic Force" as a subtitle? For sake of argument, the logo doesn't count, as the original series is not referred to as "Mighty Morphin: Power Rangers." Also, I think argument over the semantics of what this webpage should be referred to is both off-topic and moot. JPG-GR 02:35, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I do not have information relating to the press release from last year that would mention Mystic Force as a subtitle, yet, but there is this information about Disney's usage of subtitles for next year:

“ Power Rangers — DCP's #1 Boys Brand
DCP kicked-off its year experiencing strong demand for Power Rangers action figures, its perennial boy's property, during the Holiday 05 season. In 2005, Power Rangers was ranked second in the action figure category behind Star Wars, according to The NPD Group. Next year's theme will be called Power Rangers: Operation Overdrive. Power Rangers airs more than 65 times each week in over 40 territories worldwide, and continues to expand worldwide with successful launches in Italy, India and other countries this year. ” — Disney's Press Release

Ryūlóng 02:40, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not debating the use of a colon or subtitles for next year's series. This page is about Mystic Force, as the question was. JPG-GR 02:44, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

--One press release, in the face of all other official merchandise and sites (see Jetix.tv that lists not only Power Rangers Mystic Force, but SPD, Dino Thunder and Ninja Storm as well), should not make the rule. That is the exception, not everything else.

The information about this series changes with every episode that airs. It seems very silly to ban editing based on a argument over a colon. Colons are used for every other series on this website. Why is it any concern of anyone whether or not it's used on THIS one? Leave the colon in for continuity's sake if nothing else.

Additionally, this press release is for the next show, and should not retconn the names of all previous shows. JPG-GR 02:51, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The page is protected to diffuse the edit war, which is disruptive to other edits. --Chris (talk) 02:51, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I am trying to find anything for Mystic Force, but I found contradictions within Disney's press releases itself for any usage. Here, for example, they refer to SPD as "Power Rangers Space Patrol Delta", but here they refer to it as "Power Rangers: SPD". Similarly, Disney refers to Dino Thunder as "Power Rangers Dino Thunder" and "Power Rangers DinoThunder". In fact, there are no results for Mystic Force on the Disney press release website. Ryūlóng 02:53, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

This is why I would argue that the colons are inappropriate in series titles (with the possible exception of next year's series). JPG-GR 02:56, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

However, it still appears that Disney is inconsistent, and the various parts of the titles such as "Zeo" or "Mystic Force" are still considered subtitles to "Power Rangers". There would be nothing short of calling whoever is currently in charge with the PR for PR and asking them. And, even though I feel differently, a simple Amazon.com search also provides no colons in the titles. Nor does Ranger Central utilize colons. I will check Rovang's site to see how he deals with the titles. Ryūlóng 02:59, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

And he does not appear to be very consistent on the Sentai Sanctorum, or at least clear in his meaning. On series where a Power Rangers series/season was based, the Sentai side has (for example) "Hundred Beast Task Force GAORANGER" and the PR side has "POWER RANGERS Wild Force", although he does utilize a warning at the top where he states the series name as "Power Rangers Wild Force" [1]. 03:04, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

So, am I right in assuming that with the possible exception of next year's series, Power Rangers titles across the years do not utilize colons (at least according to a majority of all sources)? JPG-GR 03:05, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, we do not know if Disney will release another press release that omits the colon, as it has for SPD. Ryūlóng 03:06, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Barring future releases, is my conclusion not logical? JPG-GR 03:08, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The simple fact that there is this much debate and inconsistancy over the colons should lead one to the conclusion that it doesn't matter how it's written. Both are accepted. However, since every other article for the other seasons uses colons, it only makes sense to keep them on this article. It is the accepted form for this website. rmssw 03:06, 12 August 2006

As Ryūlóng has pointed out, this is an "encyclopedia article." I am not debating the "accepted form for this website." I'm debating the actual, legitimate name of the series. JPG-GR 03:09, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

But still, consistency within the encyclopedia would include this article. Whatever form is discovered to be the true one will be used for the Wikipedia articles, however the source material itself is conflicting. Ryūlóng 03:12, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

In that case, I challenge that no series that has yet aired (i.e., not including next year) has included a colon in it's title. Moreover, I challenge that the names of the series as listed in the Wikipedia are grammatically, from a punctuation perspective, incorrect. JPG-GR 03:14, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I'll make this much easier. Produce for me evidence that any Saban-produced series (i.e. Wild Force and before) -EVER- utilized a colon in the title. I contend that while the evidence for Disney shows may be contradictory, I have NEVER come across official material naming any of the Saban-produced shows with a colon. JPG-GR 03:18, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

One could also argue that this is a debate over whether one person has the right to dictate what gets put on a WIKI website. Ryu is not the only person in the PR fandom, and not even the person with the most connections for information. Simply because he doesn't agree with information put on the site, doesn't mean that it doesn't have a legitimate reason to be there. (I'll refer to the Bowen incident, even though Ryu did listen to me and accept the change, that was only after he changed the info, threatened to report me, and I had to change it back) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.132.127.27 (talk • contribs)

This site isn't controlled by one person, and that's why the page is protected: to force dialog and establish consensus, which is the glue that keeps Wikipedia together. --Chris (talk) 03:18, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Exactly my point. It shouldn't be controlled by one person. However when one person puts notes into the site, saying "DONT WRITE THIS" simply because they have decided it shouldn't be there and then delete others contributions, then goes to the administration because someone dared to disagree with them, the site is being "controlled". I agree that this discussion should be taking place here, and not through a battle of wills on the editting page, but there is a large issue than colons.

The titles of all of the series are grammatically correct. The correct punctuation for a movie or television show that is part of a larger series and has its own subtitle is to have the two titles separated by a colon. The proper way to write the title of a Star Wars movie, for instance, is to write it as "Star Wars: Episode X...." rmssw 03:19, 12 August 2006

So, should the article for "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers" be renamed to "Mighty Morphin: Power Rangers" or "Power Rangers: Mighty Morphin"? JPG-GR 03:21, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Not at all. MMPR is the origin of the seris, it has its own title. From Zeo and on, the series as a whole became known as Power Rangers, with each season adopting its own subtitle.rmssw 03:22, 12 August 2006

I will neither agree nor disagree with the statement that the colon is appropriate for the title of a series, in this case, in the Wikipedia. I am looking to the larger issue -- is the official name of PRMF "Power Rangers Mystic Force" or "Power Rangers: Mystic Force". The Wiki-eese used for documentation is not what I am debating, and moreover, is none of my concern. JPG-GR 03:29, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

It is this dispute that we are trying to discern in this discussion. If "Mystic Force" is not a subtitle for the current season/series, then it can be construed that it is the same for all previous and future series, as such, they will be renamed to omit the colon. If it is a subtitle, then the colons will remain. It is in this discussion that we are trying to figure out the true name of the series, whether it is a grammatically correct name per subtitles, or the commonly accepted name that omits a colon and a subtitle. However, "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers" was the name for the first series, there was no subtitle at that time. The same goes for "Mighty Morphin Alien Rangers". Another example is "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers: The Movie" or "Turbo: A Power Rangers Movie". Both utilize subtitles as part of the main title, and Rmssw is correct in using the Star Wars films as an analogy to this situation. Ryūlóng 03:24, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

And my point all along has been that there is no confirmable answer to the discussion. Both forms have been used in offical ways. Since there is no foreseeable end to this discussion, why continue it? Leave the titles as they are. rmssw 03:29, 12 August 2006

As Mystic Force has infact been referred to either way, I will drop the argument in the case of PRMF. JPG-GR 03:32, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

While Mystic Force has been settled (possibly), we (Wikipedia) have to come to a consensus here on a style for naming articles within all of Power Rangers. It appears that Disney (don't know about Saban) utilizes both a form that omits a colon and one that utilizes a colon to signify a subtitle. Currently, there are redirects set in place for omissions of the colon, but I think that it should be decided here, while we can, to try and come up with a Manual of Style for the nomenclature of articles on Power Rangers. Should the colon be omitted due to common use? Or should it be included for grammatical reasons that show the difference between the title "Power Rangers" and the subtitles (Zeo, Turbo, In Space, Lost Galaxy, Lightspeed Rescue, Time Force, Wild Force, Ninja Storm, Dino Thunder, S.P.D./Space Patrol Delta/SPD, Mystic Force, Operation Overdrive). Ryūlóng 03:37, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

As I have previously stated (and this is from memory, and not from verifiable releases), I don't recall Saban EVER using the colon. So, let's say hypothetically that Saban never used the colon. Treating Disney and Saban equally, and being overly fair, saying that Disney uses the colon 50% of the time, then 25% of the time a colon is used in a series title. However, at this point in time, there are more Saban-produced series than Disney series. I believe, based on this logic, while some series can be referred to either way, the lack of a colon is the more correct version. JPG-GR 03:42, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Based on grammar rules alone, "In Space" is an argument for no colons, since in press releases et al, it is referred to as Power Rangers in Space, or PRiS. Inserting a colon breaks the clause. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.132.127.27 (talk • contribs)

Well, since you're unlikely to find anything official dating back to the Saban days and it's clear that Disney makes no distinction, I think we should stick with the current form using colons. It is grammatically correct and makes sense for the series as a whole. And let's be clear that the offical logos for the shows don't count. They are just that: logos. There wouldn't be punctuation in them anyway. I will concede that PRIS is a possible exception. Perhaps we just change that one.rmssw 03:44, 12 August 2006

However, can you find a source from Saban that does or does not omit the colon? The decision made here (whatever it may be, omission or inclusion) should affect the other episode titles, not just those produced by Disney. However, I can agree that "Power Rangers in Space" would make much more sense than "Power Rangers: In Space". However, series such as Zeo or Lightspeed Rescue should probably still include the colon within the title. Ryūlóng 03:46, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

We have previously documented the officiality of "bandai verification." I can provide evidence of many of the Saban-era series through official Bandai promotional materials that have not utilized colons. JPG-GR 03:48, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

However, Wikipedia titles should be grammatically correct. I will not object to moving "Power Rangers: In Space" to "Power Rangers in Space" (in fact, I may start a requested move for it soon). However, all other series that are similarly named should follow the conventions that we are trying to set here. Ryūlóng 03:51, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

In the case of PRiS, the colon is just ugly. All the other series (with the possible exception of Zeo), work either way. But, the only way to appropriately "force" a colon for PRiS is to call it "Power Rangers: Space", which we can all agree is incorrect. JPG-GR 03:54, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I have made a requested move for PRiS's article at WP:RM and I have set up the discussion there. The page cannot be moved currently, because there is a redirect in its place. However, for the other series, I still feel that the names should be done in the grammatically correct fashion for titles and subtitles (and maybe we would have to set up a redirect for Zeo with Mighty Morphin Power Rangers: Zeo, as that appears to be used in some sources; although the accepted name omits "Mighty Morphin" from the title). Ryūlóng 04:01, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

As pointed out by a user at another site, the use of no colon IS grammatically correct. It's the "noun–postpositive adjective construction". As we have said, there is no history of ANY use of colons from the Saban-era, and since that era is much more lengthy, it can easily take precedence. So, do you want to do the necessary proposed moves, or shall someone else?JPG-GR 20:55, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Except that is not the case here. It is "Series/franchise title: Subtitle/Season's theme". And what happens on Rangerboard cannot affect what goes on here because of Wikipedia's guidelines on original research, which a poll at Rangerboard falls under. This discussion is not over yet, as there are plenty of users who have not made their points yet. Ryūlóng 21:00, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, you have to read the discussion below, which states every issue clearly. Ryūlóng 21:09, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

As pointed out by Ryūlóng, the use of colons in official material has varied, leaving it ambigious as to what is the proper title for this, and previous Power Rangers series. However, given the fact that both titles are used officially, at the very least it should be mentioned in the article that the title can be refered to as Power Rangers Mystic Force or Power Rangers: Mystic Force (please do not start an edit war over which one is listed first...). In regards to the actual title of the article, since it is clearly debateable, I submit the following points:

• Various novel, television, and movie series which share a common title (Star Trek, Star Wars, Stargate, The Lord of the Rings, each have individual titles for their respective sequels and spinoffs. These are clearly meant as subtitles. A brief reading of the proper use of Colon (punctuation) shows that a colon is supposed to be used to seperate a main title from a subtitle.
• Take, as an example, The Lord of the Rings. A view of the movie posters and official merchandise clearly shows no colon whatsoever seperating The Lord of the Rings from any of the specific titles for the three movies, yet it is clearly written in a way to imply that it is a subtitle. When a movie, book, or television series write the main series title in a larger front then the specific title, then it is clearly implied that the specific title is a subtitle. Therefore, regardless of what the official movie posters and such state, in proper English the title should be written with a colon
• However, even with this notion of font size implying a difference between a title and a subtitle, one cannot completely disregard the English language. Clearly, a title such as Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers is not meant to be two titles, and should never be confused with a subtitle. Power Rangers in Space is also clearly not intended as a subtitle In Space clearly makes no sense.
• Also note that press releases are, unfortunately, not the best examples of the use of the English language.

Therefore, seeing as how the titles of the series implies that they are a main title and a subtitle, it is correct to include a colon. This is backed up by some press releases, although the significance of press releases in determining the proper punctuation is debateable. Also, I personally cannot find a single novel, TV series, or movie series that has an implied subtitle without the article containing colons here on Wikipedia.

It is my opinion that, since there is no clear cut side as to which is correct based on official publications, that the policy of Wikipedia should be to lean towards the option that uses proper English, merely because it is the only other element which can be used to define the validity of either title, as well as the commonality in the fact that this use of a colon is almost universal on Wikipedia.

Quite frankly, this much debate of a colon is of no use, since either way, they go to the same article and neither will technically change someone's knowledge of the show. A title must be chosen, and this one makes the most sense from the standpoint of Wikipedia's use of colons on other pages. Therefore it will not do much harm to leave the title with the English-proper colon. The359 23:08, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The implication that titles of televion shows must be grammatically correct is astounding. Moreover, as the originator(s) of the series didn't speak English as their first language, your assumption could even be considered insulting. When it comes down to it, this argument is "Wikipedia standard" vs. "Creator's vision." Frankly, when it comes to a creative work such as a television show, Wikipedia's standards be damned. The show doesn't use a colon in it's title. JPG-GR 02:33, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Heck, perhaps you think we should rename the article for MMPR to "Mighty Morphing Power Rangers"? JPG-GR

Super Sentai titles are completely different from the Power Rangers titles. And "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers" is the correct name of that series, despite it's grammatical incorrectness. And how are we to know the creator's vision? Did you email Haim Saban, Shuki Levy, Jonathan Tzachor, or who ever else was involved with the creation of any Power Rangers series and ask them yourself? We (the general public) do not know what they meant, but it is clearly implied by the formatting of the opening titles that "Mystic Force" and the like are subtitles to "Power Rangers". The source material is conflicted, and frankly Wikipedia should not bow down to the fans of any of the subjects within it to please them. Wikipedia is not a fan site, it is an encyclopedia. Ryūlóng 02:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what the names of sentai series have to do with anything, so I'm at a loss as to why you brought them up. I believe the original creator's vision is obvious when it comes to the name of the show being "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers" and not "Mighty Morphing Power Rangers," as no source has ever referred to the original series as the latter, barring typographical errors. Moreover, no yet produced source has ever referred to any of the series produced during the Saban-era with a colon, as the (hopeful and correct) renaming of the PRiS article to "Power Rangers in Space" shows. You keep bringing up the argument that this is not a "fan site," though I see no one referring to Wikipedia as one, except you. I cannot speak for the other members of this discussion, but I am part of this debate in order to make Wikipedia the most accurate it can be, not because I'm some super fan or want to be the one declared right. If my side "wins," great. If my side "loses," oh well. This is about making the Wikipedia as accurate as possible. JPG-GR 03:01, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

It had been referred to as such higher up. And, I believed that the "as the originator(s) of the series didn't speak English as their first language" was referring to the Sentai origins, not the fact that Saban and Levy were Israeli. PRiS appears to be the only exception to the use of a subtitle and colon, as it clearly does not make sense. However, Zeo, Turbo, Lost Galaxy, etc. do follow the implication of a subtitle, or at least designation of the theme separate from the meta-series. Ryūlóng 03:07, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

So, you're saying that whatever comes after "Power Rangers" is a subtitle. However, you're also saying that "In Space", though a subtitle, shouldn't have a colon because it doesn't make sense gramatically. I agree with you that the titles should remaing consistent across the board. Therefore, the logical conclusion, since it appears the consensus is that PRiS should not use a colon, is that Wikipedia should not use colons in the other series' titles, especially since there are no yet produced examples utilizing colons in the older series. JPG-GR 03:16, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

First and foremost, the implications in regards to this title being gramatical was only in regards to the use of titles and subtitles, not in regards to the proper spelling of the word Morphing, nor was I in any way intending to imply that the title of that article should also be changed from Morphin to Morphing.

You claim that we should go with the creator's intent. We have no evidence whatsoever as to what the creator's intent is when it comes to the use of the colon, especially since as you mention the creators don't even speak English, and thus any official documents from the creators are not likely to completely convey the intent of the creator. To say that a document written by the original creator that lacks a colon is his intent is a bit presumptious since he may not know the correct English usage of colons when it comes to titles and subtitles.

Therefore, without any concrete evidence from the shows creators, we are left with the shows producers, Disney and ABC, who have documents which make both colons and no colons correct.

You claim that the Official Title does not contain a colon, yet what exactly is the Official Title? Whose statement makes for the Official Title? The logo? Disney's writting? The creator's writting? The creator's thoughts? Out of those 4, we only have evidence to the writing from 2 (possibly 3 if you can provide sources for writing from the original creators of the show). 1 source includes both colons and no colons (Disney). The other is a logo which clearly implies a title/subtitle even though it lacks a colon. (Logo).

Therefore, with no clear cut Official Title, we have no choice but to go with the style established by various other articles here in Wikipedia, in that a colon is the proper English usage to seperate a title and subtitle.

Finally, Power Rangers in Space is NOT a title/subtitle, even though the logo for the show is displayed in a similar style. Although a lowercase i in in is considered correct when beginning a subtitle, it is not popular in usage. It is clear that this is meant as a singular title. Gramatically, Power Rangers in Space is in itself nearly a complete sentence, which would mean that there is no use for a pause created by a colon in the middle. In speech, a pause is clearly implied between the title and subtitle of things such as Power Rangers: Mystic Force.

The359 03:46, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, in regards to implying that my statements regarding the logical use of the rules of the English language were insulting, I would suggest you read WP:AGF. The359 03:48, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I apologize for the statement. JPG-GR 04:30, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Colon discussion

If you want to go by accepted names, by accepted I assume you mean the fandom. Including official sites, what is the most commonly used form? Also, what is the most accepted form by the fans? Since this is a FAN site, put it to a vote. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.132.127.27 (talk • contribs)

Except Wikipedia is not a fan site. And yes, by accepted names, I refer to those both from the fandom and those that are official. Both "Power Rangers: Zeo" and "Power Rangers Zeo" are acceptable names; however "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers: Zeo" is not. Ryūlóng 04:06, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

However it is. It may not be a fansite in the traditional sense, but it is a site that is contributed to and edited by fans. If the information is verifiable. Since both forms are verifiable at multiple official sites and releases, it leaves it to the fans to agree on an accepted form. So let them vote. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.132.127.27 (talk • contribs)

The "vote" is going on as we speak. Here, we are trying to, as part of this discussion, decide on the style of titles for the Series after MMPR/AR (save for PRiS which), use a colon, as that is the grammatically correct thing to when considering subtitles, or omit the colon, which is something that appears more often than not in the Fandom (I could cite two separate threads on RB that could also show the fandom is not consistent, the OO logo thread, and the "Let's talk about PRMF" threads). Ryūlóng 04:17, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I vote in favor of NO COLONs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SonicEX (talk • contribs)

And as I've said, this is not a vote. It is a discussion, and if you are going to create accounts to stack a non-existant vote (the above user's first edit is here), it will only make things worse for your side. Ryūlóng 04:21, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I did not make that account, however this is a discussion going on in more than one place. It should be a vote. Make a poll on RB, or let people vote here. What the majority of fans use should be used on the site, since its verifiable either way. PLUS, you yourself said that the "vote is going on as we speak". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.132.127.27 (talk • contribs)

Voting for no colons. Come on people, this is ridiculous.Aresef 04:29, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I apologize for this, I honestly do, seeing as I leave the editting of something as in depth as a Wiki article to the proper folks, but you contradict yourself, Ryulong. In one reply, you say, and I quote 'The "vote" is going on as we speak.' But, no sooner had someone actually cast a ballot in this vote, you say, again quoting, 'And as I've said, this is not a vote.' Contradiction isn't something that is a very good thing in a situation such as this. And, as such? I vote no colons. --Abe The Evil 04:30, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Except it is not going to be a poll or a vote. On Wikipedia, decisions are made by consensus and arguments towards consensus. For example, on articles for deletion, decisions are based on which side has made the best argument for the case, not which side has more supporters than the other. Sure, a poll could be set up at RB, but decisions on RB (or any fan site) should really not affect decisions made on Wikipedia (or any major project). And I apologize for accusing you of creating the Sonic EX account. It is just suspicious that the new account's first edit comes here. And again, if you, Abe, feel it is necessary to come here, then perhaps a poll should be set up at RB, in addition to the discussion going on here. Ryūlóng 04:32, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

That's the thing, though, if I wanted to edit it, I would. And then you would have it changed back. I'm stating it seems very, very odd that you say "this is a vote" and then, not two replies later, state "this isn't a vote." And as far as general consensus? It's becoming obvious that the general consensus is looking towards no colons. At least, from what I see on this page, vote or no vote.--Richardstone15 04:35, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Again, I emphasize that this is not and should not be a vote or a poll. This should be a discussion, using sources and reasonings behind the reasons. I used "vote" because that is what the IP user feels it is. In the same passage, I mention that this discussion (not a vote) will decide the usage. I am in favor of using colons, as it is grammatically correct to utilize subtitles, as is used at the Star Wars films. They're not titled (as an example) "Star Wars Episode I The Phantom Menace", but "Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace", and there are redirects in place for Power Rangers articles at pages that omit the colons that go to the page that includes the colons. Ryūlóng 04:38, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

For lack of a better term, consensus then? Again, general consensus is STILL pointing towards no colon for this title. TVGuide.com makes no mention of colons in the title, same goes with Jetix.tv. Those are offical, up to date guides, with the proper people working behind them, offical people, not members of the Power Rangers fandom, trusted or not. If the offical channels of information make no mention of there being a colon sperating the main title of Power Rangers from the subtitle of any given year, then why should this page, or any of the other pages in lieu of PR, make mention of them? And, I can't help but feel that you did a personal attack against myself in a previous reply. Even if I decided to interject my thoughts into the edits, it wouldn't be my first. Please take the time to research things before claiming them.--Richardstone15 04:47, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

And that is why I changed my post. It just appeared that after SonicEX made his first post, I falsely assumed that everybody and their mother from RB would come over here and support the single side of the discussion. I am sorry for assuming as such. Ryūlóng 04:58, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Apology accepted, though I will tell you Sonic has posted/edited whatever, before. Anyway, if you're going to say arguing towards consesus, its obvious no consesus will be made. Both sides can support their side with sites... sometimes the same site. Even you, who supports Tvguide.com as a source, have to agree, since TVguide.com doesn't use colons in the titles. The best way to find a consesus would be to vote, involving the fandom that this site is supposedly run by, not just one person. Your Star Wars Analogy would work better if the episodes weren't numbered. There, its very clear that they are subtitles, not part of the Star Wars title. However in Power Rangers its not as clear, as obviously shown through the inconsistency across the board. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.132.127.27 (talk • contribs)

Actually, it does not appear that SonicEX editted prior. And I acknowledge the fact that TV guide does not use colons in the titles, however, on Wikipedia, decisions are not made through votes. Any sort of discussion that appear as votes are actually discussions, in which valid points are argued, the following of which in this situation are as follows:

1. For various reliable sources, titles of Power Rangers series omit a colon between the title "Power Rangers" and the subtitle of whatever the season's new theme is. This formatting is accepted by the fandom, and in some situations the source material.
2. It is grammatically correct to utilize the colon between "Power Rangers" and the subtitle, and this too, is used in some source materials from Disney.

However, the information from Disney's press releases is contradictory (as you have pointed out, and as I have discovered through my searches of the site) as are information from other source materials, which has led us to the discussion here. Ryūlóng 04:50, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

If that's the basis of your argument, why is this discussion still going on? You acknowledge that reliable sources have no colon and that its accepted by the fandom. You even admit that Disney's material is contradictory of itself, using both colons and no colons. So therefore your entire argument is based on a grammar rule, which can be argued for or against. For, because yes subtitles usually are seperated by a colon. Against, because the material on this page should be based on the PR universe and fandom if it contradicts grammar rules. Being true to PR and its fandom should come first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.132.127.27 (talk • contribs)

And that is why this discussion is occuring. If it is decided that Power Rangers pages should not include a colon in the title due to that being the form most accepted in the fandom, then that change will be made. If it is decided that despite the fandom's uniformity, that grammar rules should be followed, that will be done. My main opposition currently is that I feel that every user from Rangerboard will come here and make no point, just saying "NO COLONS", when Wikipedia content is decided upon debates and consensus as well as various other guidelines. Ryūlóng 05:02, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

There's just one flaw in that logic -- everyone on RB couldn't come to an agreement if it meant they'd all be given $1,000,000 JPG-GR 05:15, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

You're the only person continuously saying that there should be colons. I'm not saying that others don't agree with you, I'm sure some people do, but it seems that the majority don't. Since I don't post on RB, I certainly couldn't say that every person is going to come and post here, though I suppose they might if they had a strong enough opinion. Plus your main "opposition", as you say, is faulty, considering every person who has come to post, except for one, has made a point. You've just chosen to not address them. I mentioned a poll on RB because its where a lot of fans of PR post. Let a wider sampling of the fandom make this decision, not just one or two of us. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.132.127.27 (talk • contribs) 05:15, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I am not the only person who holds this idea. I did not create any of the PR articles; they were all here when I registered on Wikipedia; the creators (who I do not feel like tracking down) felt that subtitles were used. And this decision cannot be made in a single night. We'll let other editors see this. We'll let them make their decisions and arguments. Whether the title of this (and by the decisions made here) and other Power Ranger articles should be changed to omit the colon due to the fact that the fandom uses that formatting or the titles should remain as they are because it is grammatically correct as a title and subtitle will be decided. I do feel that the colon should be included, but if my argument is not taken by others, then I will not fight against changing it back. I have made my point, and others have made theirs. Ryūlóng 05:23, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Voting is of no use. Wikipedia does not allow original research that is not from a previously established, valid, citable source. Any vote on a forum outside of Wikipedia will not be allowed to be used as a claim in the editing of this article. Therefore this arguement is also useless. The359 22:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Both sides have made points and cited sources (moreso against the use of a colon than for). If there is going to be no vote, how will we decide this? Grz 00:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Please hold on, an administrator will answer your question in the order in which it was received. Ryūlóng 00:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

This discussion is pointless, why not just have it that whenever anyone types in either one of those titles "Power Rangers Mystic Force" or "Power Rangers: Mystic Force", they both lead to the same page?Unknown Dragon 23:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

That has been done. The issue is that what is the correct title of the page, whether or not it includes a colon or not, reasons for which are seen throughout this page. Ryūlóng 00:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Requesting change to article

While all of this is going down, I would like to request that an administrator change "Phoenix Fury Zord" to "Phoenix Unizord" under the Zords heading in this article, as that change was done mistakenly prior to the protection. Ryūlóng 06:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. — Laura Scudder ☎ 19:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Posting Here as it seems appropriate, Ryulong originally posted not far down, and this is the request article... There was a Link to his publicist's site a while back, but for some reason someone deleted the evidence the letter was proven fake o.o added in some thing to make it seem a bit more non biased... Myzou 04:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

It is requested that the final item under trivia concerning a team-up episode be re-written to state the following:

• There has been no confirmation as of this writing that shows that Mystic Force will or will not have a team-up episode with S.P.D.. There has been an email from Matt Austin's publicist stating there won't be, however it has been stated that she would not answer any emails regarding Matt on her official website. If there will be no team-up, then Mystic Force will mark the second time this has happened since the inception of the practice of having team-up episodes in Lost Galaxy (Zeo had the first team-up with the Aquitian Rangers, but the season by season practice began in PRLG). The first instance when there was no team-up between Wild Force and Ninja Storm, due to the switch in production companies and filming locations. A possible reason for the lack of a team-up between S.P.D. and Mystic Force comes from the number of episodes planned for Mystic Force (32) when previous seasons had more episodes (38).

Ryūlóng 19:54, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. —Mets501 (talk) 14:11, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Another change, this time to the Notes heading:

• On 2006-08-14, Disney posted The Hunter on the official Power Rangers website. (Move the link from the note above it down to this one)

--Ryūlóng 01:25, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. —Mets501 (talk) 22:10, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

BurgundyRanger is good enough

I still don't understand why you need to have another source besides BurgundyRanger. He's always been right and he has access to press material. You know that he does and yet you still need to wait for another source. He is good enough. I don't understand why you can't put "Hard Heads" on the episode list. He's been proven many times as reliable, so why won't you listen? What difference does it make if a reliable source like BurgundyRanger posts stuff of if a TV guide says the stuff. Who cares what's official. BurgundyRanger is 100% reliable and that's all that freakin matters.

See Talk:Power_Rangers:_Operation_Overdrive#BurgundyRanger_IS_A_RELIABLE_SOURCE Arrow 19:05, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Larger villians

In the article, it says that the Imperious & Dark Spector are the largest monsters being 'more than one hundred times larger than the Titan Megazord'. aren't the first ones to become that size the last 3 remaining Psycorangers in PRIS? so that would mean that he's the fourth villian to become that size? but the fifth 'evil' creation to be that size, the first being Serpentera in MMPR Funduh 20:24, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm fairly sure the Psycho Rangers were normal Megazord size, but I cannot remember that episode. Ryūlóng 21:07, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'm sure the Psycho Rangers in monster form were normal Megazord size, Serpentera was more of a zord than a monster but then that information could be included, I honestly think though that Imperious/Meemy was larger than Serpentera. I'm not sure what size Dark Specter is but he is obviously larger than any normal monster or megazord right?Unknown Dragon 21:47, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

PRIS, The Enemy Within, they grow larger then megazord level (the rangers and zords are seen looking up), but its unexplained and not so clear, but the hallmarks are there (camera from below, only background is the sky). how do the Psycho rangers die in Super Sentai? Funduh 23:18, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

SPD Team Up

why was that Trivia added? i thought it hadn't been proven yet? seeing as Piggy has already been in PRMF, there should be a team up Funduh 20:24, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

There has not been any proof about the SPD team up. There was a posting at RB that said that it would not occur, and I frankly have to believe that, because there is not enough time in Mystic Force to allow a random team-up and complete the storyline. Hell, they're going to have a hard time fitting in the battlizer. Ryūlóng 21:08, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

There is Piggy, i'd say thats proof enough that their will be a team up. but then the SPD Red Ranger is in America, as shown by that movie with Amanda Baynes, i forget the title, so may not be able to do a team up. but then, you may well see him in PROO Funduh 23:18, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I assume you mean She's the Man, but I doubt that has anything to do with the lack of a team-up. It is more due to the fact that Mystic Force is trying to put as much storyline into the series as possible, avoiding the unnecessary team-up episode (and maybe to avoid any sort of retconning needed to explain why Jack is a Red S.P.D. Ranger, again), unless they decide to do both, have the S.P.D. team come back and help the Mystic Force team fight one of the Ten Terrors (which is really hard to see happening). Ryūlóng 00:24, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

There will be no team up according to Matt Austins manager. You can send his manager an email, to receive the response that he will not be returning for a reuinion episode for Mystic Force.

Yes, HOWEVER, his manager's site also states he will NOT respond to any emails relating to Matt, so that has been proven a false e-mail, the fact MAY be true, but as the email is fake, there is no evidence yet. For all we know the team-up will be the finale, highly unlikely, but still quite possible. The trivia should be changed abck to what it was (i.e. the confirmation and the argument against the confirmation. Myzou 04:18, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree, the trivia should be removed. There is no confirmation yet. There is still chance that the writers worked it into the storyline that the SPD team must help the Mystic Force Rangers defeat one of the Ten Terrors. In any case, the trivia as it is written now isn't true. Zeo was the first season to introduce a team-up. Turbo had no team-up. In Space had somewhat of a team-up when Justin came back, it wasn't a full team-up, but I think it still counts. So, if there truly isn't one this year, it'll make Mystic Force the third (or fourth if "True Blue To The Rescue" is questioned) series to lack one since they were introduced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rmssw (talk • contribs)

Then the trivia will be altered.

It is requested that the final item under trivia concerning a team-up episode be re-written to state the following:

• There has ben no confirmation as of this writing that shows that Mystic Force will have a team-up episode with S.P.D.. There has been an email from Matt Austin's publicist, however it has been stated that she would not answer any emails. If there will be no team-up, then Mystic Force will mark the second time this has happened since the inception of the practice of having team-up episodes in Lost Galaxy (Zeo had the first team-up with the Aquitian Rangers, but the season by season practice began in PRLG). The first instance when there was no team-up between Wild Force and Ninja Storm, due to the switch in production companies and filming locations. A possible reason for the lack of a team-up between S.P.D. and Mystic Force comes from the number of episodes planned for Mystic Force (32) when previous seasons had more episodes (38).

Ryūlóng 19:54, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Matt Austin IS a HE, not a SHE! Don-Don 17:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Matt Austin's publicist is a she, though, which is what the entry is referring to. Ryūlóng 21:07, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Imperious as the Lightning Ancient Titan?

When you see Legend mode it shows him as a being with lightning Bolt extentions, the same as the garuda. Also it seems he likes to use his Lightning spells more often then the others (Three times instead of just once or twice) and it would fit because dispite not seeing him in the battle, in the English seris it is just a type of power up. Meaning he wasn't the original Yellow Wizard. Just one of the Anceint Titans/ Anceint Mystic Mode of Lightning thing.

This has been discussed already. The Yellow Ancient Titan and Callindor's Ancient Mystic Mode are two different entities. Ryūlóng 20:09, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Here's proof. Picture of Calindor's Ancient Mystic Mode. Picture of Yellow Ancient Titan. Similar, but clearly not the same. Arrow 22:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I always saw it as Chips titan = Lightning while Calindor's = Thunder71.68.10.11 15:12, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

While, Nick and Leanbow's elements are both fire.Liraoq 23:24, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Leanbow's fire element is different from Nick's fire element, at least from Magiranger counterparts (even now no one really knows what Isamu's name meant, blaze, brave, blade, etc.) Ryūlóng 23:35, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

It meant blaze.... Brage is just the romanjinized way of pronouncing Blaze. 68.50.246.250 21:59, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

We don't know what it meant. The name was Burajeru, which can mean many things: Blagel or Bragel. Ryūlóng 00:24, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Im pretty sure it has no meaning. Its just a name. Fire, Blaze, and besides that, Magazine scans. Floria L 19:20, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no consensus, default not moved.

For future reference: "Power Rangers Mystic Force"(without colon) is an acceptable formation in English; "Power Rangers: Mystic Force"(with colon) is common for subtitles in books and television, regardless of whether there is a colon in the book cover or other visual representation.

For further consideration: The question here is whether the usage on official websites verifiably represents the official name and the commonly used name. Another question that would need consideration if this article were to be moved is whether the many similarly named Power Rangers articles would also warrant a name change. If there is some agreement of editors here, another Requested move may be opened, but keep in mind that it is just a colon and I highly recommend that you move on to something else for a while.

General Wikipedia note: This and similar processes are not a vote; the reasons are what is important, the reasons are what is evaluated, and any "voter" should be amenable to changing his opinion in the face of good reasons. —Centrx→talk • 03:44, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Power Rangers: Mystic Force → Power Rangers Mystic Force – The official title of this series does not utilize a colon, and while some verifiable sources do utilize one, it is the exception, not the rule. JPG-GR 01:50, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Support as nominated. JPG-GR 01:51, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support.--Aresef 02:07, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose per the discussion above. It is not the correct title, and it should not be moved there. Please read the lengthy discussion that The359 had described. Again, do not try to subvert the discussion process. Ryūlóng 02:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

  No discussion is being subverted. The discussion continues. Regardless, the clear need for a survey cannot be ignored any further. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JPG-GR (talk • contribs)

• Strong Oppose There is no singular Official Title, with the possible exception of the image of the title from the opening credits. This image implies the use of a subtitle, and thus should be listed gramatically with a colon, even though it does not show a colon in the image. See also various other TV shows, novels, and movies which feature subtitles yet do not include a colon in the title image in the opening credits. The style used by Wikipedia on all other things with subtitles should be repeated here. The359 02:19, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

  Please keep your explanations to one-sentence, as according to Wikipedia standards. JPG-GR 02:34, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

  The359 can use as much as he/she needs to explain her point. What standards are you talking about? Those for requesting a move, which do not count for reasons against it? Ryūlóng 02:39, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

  Please see the opening line to this Survey section, that states "followed by an optional one-sentence explanation." Any additional discussion should be added to the discusison above, or as noted below. JPG-GR 02:43, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

  It also states "optional". The closing administrator will see the reason for the strong oppose and will count it among the other parts of the survey. Ryūlóng 02:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

  If that is the closing administrator's choice, so be it. That's why he/she is the closing administrator, and you, I, and the rest of the contributors are not. JPG-GR 02:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support --GreenNinja 02:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• Strongly Support The MAJORITY of sources, including all online listings (TVGuide.com and Zap2it.com, the two listings sources in the USA), the OFFICIAL website (JETIX.tv, and not just in places where it's visual, it also has no colon where it's spelled out in plain text, like on the main shows section of the site, and on the main page where you highlight the pictures of the various shows on the scroll), and press releases from ABCCNG all have it down as "Power Rangers Mystic Force". As for the press releases that have it with a colon, those are released by divisions other than the main ABCCNG depatment, like the consumer products division, and they do not cover PR on a regular basis and thus are likely to get some things wrong. --Kyl416 02:41, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

  What is "ABCCNG"? Ryūlóng 04:28, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

  ABC Cable Networks Group, the division who handles the main press for Power Rangers and other shows on Disney's cable networks

• Support Kazuhara 04:05, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose for the reasons stated by The359. TJ Spyke 04:19, 14 August 2006
• Strongly Support When ABCCNG, Disney, Jetix, Fox, etc use a colon just like the consumer products division then I will support having a colon. As for proper English, that is a load of crap. Proper English would be Power Rangers Zeo, that is the official title, proper English would be Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring. Official materials have never shown a colon thus a colon should never exist, to include it is just asinine, arrogant, incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.170.48.199 (talk • contribs)

  Please keep insulting comments out of this discussion. The359 22:39, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

• Strongly Support When Power Rangers airs on television there is no evidence of a colon being used, and therefore neither should one be used here. El Greco 14:53, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• Strongly Support No where in official usage is a colon used in Power Rangers titles. RangerKing 15:56, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• Strongly Support There's some misinformation being perpetuated that the use of no colon is grammatically incorrect, which is simply not the case. The form "Power Rangers Zeo" or "Power Rangers Mystic Force" follows a noun–postpositive adjective construction that requires no colon. The use of no colon in fact makes it follow this construction by default, so what is the point of trying to change the way the creators of the show had intended it for it to be written? Why would one denounce a perfectly reasonable and correct construction to fit an alternate one when that correct one has been a mainstay for ten years? Using the sole argument that using the colon is "correct"? Possibly. But so is not using one, so that argument does not fly! It is simply one alternate (and unpopular) interpretation that looks at it like a title–subtitle form and trying to negate ten years of correct grammatical construction by applying some wholly interpretive rule and calling all others incorrect is baffling. Having the colon (incorrectly) there simply sounds like change for the sake of change to me. SuperNoxic 18:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• Strongly Support It's simply a case of each incarnation being its own seperate entity with its own seperate and distinctive title. It's been that way since the beginning -- and this is from someone who has followed the franchise from its childhood. Thusly, this decision should then be universally applied to every other PR television incarnation. BurgundyRanger —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.88.68.3 (talk • contribs)
• Strongly Support As official merchandise, etc. uses no colon Grz 22:53, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose per Ryūlóng. Also, I find JPG-GR's attempts to intimidate and silence The359's opinion to be particularly unsettling. jgp ^T_C 23:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I fail to see where I was trying to intimidate or silence The359. Ironically, now I feel I must refer you to WP:AGF. JPG-GR 05:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

• Strongly Support. Outside of S.P.D, I've never witnessed a logo, offical or unoffical, to have colons IN the art itself. --72.128.10.192 07:02, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support* y3k 9:56, 15 August 2006 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.216.64.11 (talk • contribs)
• Stongly Oppose For same reasons as The359. Myzou 04:02, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
• Strongly Oppose For same reasons as The359.

Candyo32 01:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

• Stronly Oppose For same reasons as The359 and Candyo32 Nationalboard 16:15, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support The show's official Jetix page does not use a colon when the title is written out in regular text, and that's good enough for me. --DavidK93 17:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

Add any additional comments

The key problem here is that you're saying "I'm right, this is correct" without offering any evidence. Now, let's see: The logo doesn't use a colon, yes, but that's not really a fair argument, because the logo is a visual, stylistic representation of the show's title; there's a thunderbold between the words "power" and "rangers", too, but it would be absurd to think that that should be used in the title. The official Jetix website doesn't use a colon,[2], but again, that's a very visual, stylistic representation. The IMDb[3] doesn't use a colon, but they are from infallible or official.

So, essentially, I can't say for sure. But please back up your claims with evidence; simply saying "This is correct because I say so" is not enough.--SB | T 02:53, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I am copying the explanation from higher up by The359 for the closing admin's knowledge of the reasons for opposition. Ryūlóng 04:15, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

As pointed out by Ryūlóng, the use of colons in official material has varied, leaving it ambigious as to what is the proper title for this, and previous Power Rangers series. However, given the fact that both titles are used officially, at the very least it should be mentioned in the article that the title can be refered to as Power Rangers Mystic Force or Power Rangers: Mystic Force (please do not start an edit war over which one is listed first...). In regards to the actual title of the article, since it is clearly debateable, I submit the following points:

• Various novel, television, and movie series which share a common title (Star Trek, Star Wars, Stargate, The Lord of the Rings, each have individual titles for their respective sequels and spinoffs. These are clearly meant as subtitles. A brief reading of the proper use of Colon (punctuation) shows that a colon is supposed to be used to seperate a main title from a subtitle.
• Take, as an example, The Lord of the Rings. A view of the movie posters and official merchandise clearly shows no colon whatsoever seperating The Lord of the Rings from any of the specific titles for the three movies, yet it is clearly written in a way to imply that it is a subtitle. When a movie, book, or television series write the main series title in a larger front then the specific title, then it is clearly implied that the specific title is a subtitle. Therefore, regardless of what the official movie posters and such state, in proper English the title should be written with a colon
• However, even with this notion of font size implying a difference between a title and a subtitle, one cannot completely disregard the English language. Clearly, a title such as Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers is not meant to be two titles, and should never be confused with a subtitle. Power Rangers in Space is also clearly not intended as a subtitle In Space clearly makes no sense.
• Also note that press releases are, unfortunately, not the best examples of the use of the English language.

Therefore, seeing as how the titles of the series implies that they are a main title and a subtitle, it is correct to include a colon. This is backed up by some press releases, although the significance of press releases in determining the proper punctuation is debateable. Also, I personally cannot find a single novel, TV series, or movie series that has an implied subtitle without the article containing colons here on Wikipedia.

It is my opinion that, since there is no clear cut side as to which is correct based on official publications, that the policy of Wikipedia should be to lean towards the option that uses proper English, merely because it is the only other element which can be used to define the validity of either title, as well as the commonality in the fact that this use of a colon is almost universal on Wikipedia.

Quite frankly, this much debate of a colon is of no use, since either way, they go to the same article and neither will technically change someone's knowledge of the show. A title must be chosen, and this one makes the most sense from the standpoint of Wikipedia's use of colons on other pages. Therefore it will not do much harm to leave the title with the English-proper colon. The359 23:08, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

If you want to usee the proper English argument then you have to change Mighty Morphin Power Rangers to Mighty Morphing Power Rangers, because Morphin isn't proper English. This entire 'debate' has nothing but flimsy excuses to support colons. There is no implication of a title and subtitle there is only one title no subtitles. It is called Power Rangers Zeo that is the title. There isn't any subtitle, no colons, and no punctuation at all. Power Rangers S.P.D. is the only season to ever have punctuation and until another is written as such in the image, from Disney, Jetx, ABCCNG, etc there will never one to have punctuation and be proper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.212.139 (talk • contribs)

Except it is written in the series title that MMPR is "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers". If anything, it would be grammatically correct to include an apostrophe in that title so that it is "Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers", but that was never seen, either. The images do not show any sort of punctuation, yes, but the way they are designed implies the use of a subtitle (which Zeo and Mystic Force) are. Ryūlóng 21:33, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

And if not a subtitle, it should at least be distinguished to be the theme. Ryūlóng 21:55, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

If we are using the sole argument that we are "[leaning] towards the option that uses proper English," then it makes the most sense to use the obvious and correct form of having no colon. The form "Power Rangers [Whatever]" is certainly correct, because it follows that grammatical construction where you have a noun followed by an adjective, called the postpositive adjective, needing no punctuation or anything between the elements. Have you ever heard of the Brothers Grimm? Or how about the Attorney General of the United States? In this construction, the show is obviously named after the team it features. The Power Rangers Zeo or the Power Rangers Turbo or the Power Rangers Time Force are names of the various teams. The Zeo Rangers themselves announced themselves as the "Power Rangers Zeo" in "A Zeo Beginning, Part II." Do you think they were announcing the name of the TV show using title–subtitle? No. That was the name of their team and is correct from a grammatical point of view. You can look at it from a title–subtitle standpoint (referencing Lord of the Rings or Star Wars and the like), but that is simply choosing an alternate interpretation over one that has been correct and correctly used for the past ten years. SuperNoxic 19:02, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

However, I cannot find any sort of information on this "noun-postpositive adjective" construction of which you speak. Surely, the Zeo Rangers had referred to themselves as the "Power Rangers Zeo", but they were naming themselves, not the series, the title (card) of which implies the "Title: Subtitle" construction. If the use of the colon forces this interpretation, why not keep it that way? Even though I'm arguing for the usage, I can now safely say that this discussion could fall under the wonderful discussions at WP:LAME (including myself). And frankly, we do not know what is or is not correct without emailing anyone who created the series, and even then, that would be considered a form of original research, which is the same as any episode title that Burg releases or the logo that Kyl provided (until that is shown in a public press release). Hell, even if you check out the threads at RB, the OO logo thread uses a colon in its title.

It is somewhat clear when you see REALLY BIG WORDS over really small ones in a title card, that the "Title: Subtitle" format is being utilized. Ryūlóng 21:33, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Wait, now your argument is the title card (the logo) of the series is what we're going by? I thought we were going by proper English, in which case the form that has been used for the past ten years (with no colon) would be correct? (Please Google the two words "postpositive adjective" and hundreds of pages will show up.) In the case of looking at the logo, are you going to propose that we change the titles to POWER RANGERS to match the logo, which has no colon, by the way, and is a graphical, stylistic representation? It is just your opinion that the modifiers of the teams are subtitles, hence all of the implications. When you look at on-screen promotions on Fox itself (since 1996), TV Guide listings (since 1996), Bandai toy boxes and promotional materials (since 1996), and so many other official sources, and the title follows correct grammatical construction (which handily refutes the chief case for the colon), I don't know what other possible argument there could be left for the inclusion of the colon. SuperNoxic 22:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

My argument is based on both correct grammatical construction of the title of the series so that it includes a subtitle which is implied by the style of the title card. "Power Rangers" is the correct title of each series/season, and the "postpositive adjective" as you put it is the subtitle of the series, which is separated by the title by a colon. Official sources are conflicting, whether or not they are from ABCCNG (which can only be accessed by a select few) or the licensing site (which is accessible to all). The use of the colon is correct just as it is correct not to use a colon, both on reasons of grammar. Both are accepted, despite one not accepted by its fandom. I am not suggesting we make changes to the title so that it is all caps, with random smaller letters, or include the lightning bolt. It's the inclusion of the colon to separate the subtitle/postpostitive thing, which you yourself said, forces the other construction, regardless. Ryūlóng 22:46, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

As already stated, the use of the title card was to how the implication that the words Mystic Force were meant as a subtitle, and not as part of the full title, which is a popular way to display subtitles in movies, regardless of whether or not there is physically a colon drawn in (especially since putting a colon into an image like that would make it appear unbalanced). The359 23:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I have no clue what your references to the Attorny General or the Brothers Grimm are meant to refer to, especially since neither are titles so to speak. Having no colon is not the correct term for a subtitle. Looking at nouns or adjectives are moot since these are not even sentences, they are titles, and are not meant to follow gramatical rules when it comes to sentence order and punctuation. The only rule we have to go off of is the usage of a colon for a title-subtitle. Every other article on Wikipedia that is the usage of a title and subtitle uses a colon, and most every official documentation from studios in regards to these titles also use a colon. Therefore, unless you are suggesting that every single usage of a colon to seperate a title and subttitle, and the entire entry in colon (punctuation) is incorrect, then the correct title is with a colon, and has been backed up by official documents (something that has already been discussed). The359 22:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

By your definition, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is incorrect, Star Trek: First Contact is incorrect, and other such examples of title-subtitle which use a colon and also have an adjective following a noun. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The359 (talk • contribs) .

So..... changing this one title would imply a change to all Post-MMPR titles? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.50.246.250 (talk • contribs)

As I believe in the reader's "right to know," the reader might be interested in the situation described at (Link removed). JPG-GR 06:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

This is not a smear campaign, it is a vote. The votes are back to what they used to be, and Ryulong's vote still counts as well, regardless of what he did. A users personal discussion with the administration bears no weight on the vote and discussion on the merits of a colon or no colon. Therefore, what Ryulong did is NOT part of the vote or part of the discussion, and has no place here in the discussion section. The359 19:40, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I never said his voted didn't count. Everyone has an equal say here. I was just pointing out the fact that he oddly seemed it was appropriate to edit other people's votes, i.e. changing their say here. JPG-GR 20:17, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

And it's up to the administration to deal with him for changing the votes. Again, this discussion has no place here with the votes.The359 20:30, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Except I did not really change anything, other than remove "Strongly". It didn't really change anything, especially on those who merely say "Strongly Support" and nothing else (or are anonymous editors). Ryūlóng 20:21, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

And that can be seen here, so stop linking to my Archives. Ryūlóng 01:07, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The Hunter on Jetix.tv

It is now up on Jetix.tv[4]71.68.10.11 00:28, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but it doesn't appear to be working. Ryūlóng 00:34, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

shouldnt still be added to the page though?

If you want to, use {{editprotected}}. Ryūlóng 00:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I say add it anyways. It usually delays about 4-5 hours after it gets put up. No harm in putting it up now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.50.246.250 (talk • contribs)

Relations to the Tribunal of Magic

I remember in Dark Wish, when the three members of the Tribunal of Magic were watching the events that were going on on Earth, they watched Toby being dragged away by Necrolai and some Hidiacs, and I think one of the members looked towards the Black-Robed figure and said "A Relative of yours, are they not?" or something to that extent, and the Black-Robed Tribunal of Magic replied something like "It needed to be done." (sorry, I can't quite remember the precise dialogue but it went something like that) Does anyone know what they were talking about? Is Toby (or Necrolai) somehow connected to the Tribunal of Magic?Unknown Dragon 05:57, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it was just a joke. It's a kids show; don't think too hard about it. Ryūlóng 06:01, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Though it would not be the first time in a kids show where a villainess was related to someone of higher magical authority, i.e. Evil-Lyn and the Faceless One in 2002's He-Man. - DrachenFyre > YOU! 12:45, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Notes

For some reason, none of the Trivia or Notes show up at the bottom, even though they're in the edit this page. How come you can't see them? Pokemega32 18:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

An anon fucked up by putting in his fake episode names and removed a tag that hides the episodes that have not aired yet, it's been fixed. Ryūlóng 20:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)