Talk:Leon Klinghoffer

Untitled

This article is not related to Judaism as a religion, therefore scaping the scope of the [Project on Judaism]. I will remove the notice about the project.

Cut out of the article and pasted here

Your account of Klinghoffer's death is WRONG on several counts.

Klinghoffer was shot in the head and the chest and died immediately.

He was thrown overboard by a ship's waiter and the barber who were forced to do so by the hijackers.

Marilyn Klinghoffer had been separated from her husband before this occurred and was not informed of her husband's death until after the hijackers had released the hostages and had been granted free passage out of Egypt back to Tunis. Marilyn Klinghoffer had been told by the hijackers that her husband was in the ship's infirmary and she had gone there immediately once the hiajckers had released them. Not firnding her husband she was called to the bridge by Captain Gerardo de Rosa who then informed her that her husband had been murdered.

Don't believe me - check it out in Sara Rimer's report "Marilyn Klinghoffer's Story: Gun at her Head," New York Times, October 29, 1985, p. A12.

Submitted by - Sean K. Anderson, author, Historical Dictionary of Terrorism (Scarecrow Press, 2002)

Same procedure once again

"The terrorists then threw him and his wheelchair overboard, while he was still alive as his wife watched in horror. . . The body was recovered from the sea" - This is factually incorrect in several respects. Leon Klinghoffer was shot in the forehead and chest - he was no longer alive when his body was thrown overboard. The terrorists themselves did not throw him overboard. THey forced the ship's barber and a waiter to throw the man and his wheelchair overboard.

His wife was separated from him beofre the killing occurred and had been told by the terrorist that her husband was in the ship's informary. She only learned the truth after the terrorists left the ship at Port Said.

The body washed up on shore and was found by the Syrians around October 14-15 . . .

Why is it so difficult to correct misinformation in Wikipedia? Don't take my word for it: check the original reports:

McFadden, Robert D. “15 Passengers, on Return to U.S., Tell of Terror on the Cruise Liner,” New York Times, October 13, 1985, A1 A24.

Gwertzman, Bernard. “U.S. Believes Body Found By Syrians Is Slain Hostage’s,” New York Times, October 16, 1985, pp.A1, A13.

Shouldn't this page mention why he was killed?

At the moment, it only mentions the supposed reason given by the PLO - that he was killed by his wife for insurance money - without mentioning the real reason, i.e., presumably, because he was Jewish. Terraxos (talk) 17:53, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

it's pretty obvious from the context of the article that the PLO claim was not taken seriously by anyone. add something to make that more clear if you'd like. SJMNY (talk) 05:53, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I thought he was singled out because he was jewish and he mouthed off to them, that there were other passengers on board known by the hijackers to be jews but they killed Klinghoffer because he mouthed off to them, i.e. it wasn't "because he was jewish" (they would have thrown all of the jews overboard if that was the case) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.159.186 (talk) 10:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. How dare that pushy Jew say anything! He should know his place.

In other words--when you say something like "mouthed off," you make it sound like he was a child who was justly smacked down for being bratty. He was murdered. In cold blood. For being Jewish. He didn't "mouth off." Nothing he did provoked them. They would've killed him no matter what, because they came to kill. Blaming it on him because he "mouthed off" is like blaming the red-haired Australian soldiers who were murdered on the Bataan Death March by the Japanese, because they stood out.69.86.96.214 (talk) 05:56, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Use of the word "brazenly" in referring to Farouq Qaddumi's suggestion

I believe the use of the word "brazenly" in this sentence, "Foreign Secretary Farouq Qaddumi brazenly suggested that the terminally ill Marilyn Klinghoffer had killed her husband for insurance money" falls under Wikipedia's POV.Mahammad Kalfat (talk) 11:36, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

The thing is that when he said it he knew very well that it was extremely unlikely to be true, and he also knew very well that he would convince extremely few people in the West to believe it to be true, so that it's rather difficult to assign any motivation for why he said it -- other than that he enjoyed being an asshole and taunting the victims of terrorist attacks... AnonMoos (talk) 01:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Again, you don't use it in this way in an encyclopedic entry. "In what some commentators regarded as 'brazen' statements, Farouq Qaddumi suggested that..." is an option (if those commentators do exist and could be cited) Mahammad Kalfat (talk) 08:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

What alternative better wording do you suggest to convey the fact that he knew he was lying? AnonMoos (talk) 20:57, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Mahammad is correct. "Brazenly" would be a bad word choice in pretty much any article here on any subject. As for alternative wording, whatever is found would have to come from a reliable source. IronDuke 16:51, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

reqphoto template

It's unlikely that there are any free photos available, since he wasn't well-known until after he was dead... AnonMoos (talk) 22:11, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Death in Syria categories

The subject was killed with a firearm/murdered, etc. in Syria. The ship was in Syrian waters at the time, not international waters. Syrian waters is territorially part of Syria. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Disability?

This might be a minor point, but does anyone know the cause of Klinghoffer's disability? It just seems odd that there is no mention of it here. 70.88.213.74 (talk) 19:32, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

merge with the Achilles Christo page?

See Subject.

terminology used--"Palestinian Terrorists", 'murdered' etc.

https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Al-Dawayima_massacre

Notice in an article about an Israeli atrocity, the words 'murder' and 'terrorism' except in the context of the quotations from Palestinians regarding the event. Using Israeli articles as a template, I don't see why language about Palestinian terrorism and murder are acceptable when they are in this article.

Or maybe that just means I need to update the terminology in the Israel articles... Solntsa90 (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

The word "murder" applies to any killing whatsoever which does not result from a war fought according to the accepted laws of war or an established judicial process for convicting and sentencing criminals. The killing of Leon Klinghoffer self-evidently does not fall under either of those exceptions, and is therefore murder plain and simple. As discussed on your user talk page, your offered alternative ("execution") is unfortunately ridiculous and absurd in this context. AnonMoos (talk) 15:57, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Dead links

Two of the links at the end of the article are dead links. Beebop211 (talk) 22:00, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Split suggestion???

An IP has suggested a rather short section be split into a new article. There is no reason to do so. Nor has one been proferred. I suggest the tag be speedily removed.

If an article becomes too large, or a section of an article has a length that is out of proportion to the rest of the article, it is often appropriate for some or all of the article to be split into new articles. That's quite obviously not the case here.

Perhaps it was an editing test by the IP.Epeefleche (talk) 04:25, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps. But as that editor's other change wasn't supported by the source, I've reverted the edits. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:33, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 5 October 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move  — Amakuru (talk) 11:51, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

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Leon Klinghoffer → Shooting of Leon Klinghoffer – Subject was not notable until shooting 172.56.32.247 (talk) 20:46, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

• Support Killing of Leon Klinghoffer or Murder of Leon Klinghoffer. Both are standard forms used in numerous Wikipedia main title headers. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 17:19, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose this article is not JUST about the murder. It has a few sections and there is a link to the main article. I think we should leave as is in this case. 🔯 Sir Joseph ^🍸(talk) 17:23, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

• Strongly Oppose change to "shooting", since the most memorable feature of his death was his wheelchair being rolled over the side. I'm not sure I see any great need to change the article title at all, since this is someone who's had a famous opera written about his life. In that sense, he's really not comparable to Mark Duggan or whoever... AnonMoos (talk) 15:39, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Alex Odeh

I added the needed see-also link to Alex Odeh (he was part of the aftermath), but forgot I wasn't logged in when I made the edit (sorry)... AnonMoos (talk) 21:22, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Sheikh Yassin might also be relevant, but since there's separation in time and space, I won't add a link... AnonMoos (talk) 21:25, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Klinghoffer Family update

I am the son-in-law of Leon Klinghoffer. Based on discussions with his daughters, we want to point out that the following is not true from the article: "He flew missions in B-24 Liberator bombers with the famous 93rd Bombardment Group in the European theater of World War II." Leon was inducted into the Air Force on May 5, 1942. He graduated from the Casey Jones School of Aeronautics on November 25, 1942 and was a airplane mechanic. He was made a corporal on June 1, 1943. He was honorably discharged on January 17, 1944.

In addition, the picture with Mr. Tannenbaum is not our father. There are many Klinghoffer's in Israel and some people with the name Leon Klinghoffer. Perhaps this is a picture of another Leon Klinghoffer.

Arbittier (talk) 19:07, 21 February 2021 (UTC) Jerry Arbittier