Talk:Kurt Vonnegut

Recently added "Technology" section

I've just patched up the references in the recently-added "Technology" section. The section is entirely referenced to primary sources, which doesn't seem appropriate for a Featured Article – perhaps an editor with a good overview of the secondary literature on Vonnegut could review whether including such a section is appropriate or not and if so how it should be sourced? Best, Wham2001 (talk) 11:06, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I've added some secondary literature on the theme, and would be happy to add additional sources as needed. If editors think it works better as a section under "themes," that would make sense, but given his prominence as a technological critic, some acknowledgement of that theme or his views on technology seems appropriate. Ukerist (talk) 17:33, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

lawsuit?

This article mentions Vonnegut threatening to sue Brown & Williamson in a 2006 Rolling Stone interview. However, he had already made the same statement in A Man Without a Country, published in 2005. And of course the threat was tongue-in-cheek, as he was supposedly going to sue them over their cigarettes' failure to kill him as promised. 2601:642:C201:210:7794:40BA:B6CE:7EEB (talk) 20:10, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I think it is pretty obvious the remakr was sarcastic. As to the timing, I don't believe I have a copy of that particular book, if you can provide details, ISBN number and page number specifically, I think it could be changed to reflect that he said it earlier. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 20:21, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Wording

Hi, maybe it's me, non native speaker, but isn't something off in "At the time of his death, he had written fourteen novels, three short-story collections, five plays, and five nonfiction books. A book composed of his unpublished pieces, Armageddon in Retrospect, was compiled and posthumously published..."? Say that he wrote three works, A,B and C, of which the first two, A and B were published in his lifetime and C posthumously. I would contend that at the time of his death, KV had _published_ A and B, but also _written_ C already before he died. So the word "written" in the quote should, I feel, be "published" (or can you say "he'd had published" in EN ...?), so as not to imply that someone else wrote the posthumous works. Super nitpick, I guess, and probably wrong, but .... it just grated a little. T 2A02:FE1:E16B:CC00:589C:28EB:3E9:F20F (talk) 23:18, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

GHQ

I recently made an addition to the "struggling writer" section, adding this sentence: In 1956 he designed a WW2-themed board game called "GHQ", which he unsuccessfully pitched to publishers. with a citation to the recent NY Times article about the game. It was reverted the same day with the note "question whether this is a significant part of Vonnegut's career". I am confused about why an unpublished creative work by the author is unworthy of a single sentence, when the article includes quotes by his son Mark Vonnegut about how important the game was to KV, both for the hoped-for financial return but also creatively. Plus the next sentence in the Wikipedia article mentions how he opened a Saab dealership, which is certainly less important to his legacy as a creator than the board game.

I am an infrequent contributor to wikipedia, so I hope this can be a learning experience for me, as I don't understand why this isn't relevant in a biography of his life. G.engelstein (talk) 14:36, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

I would say that were it mentioned in, for example, biographies of Vonnegut, that there might be a stronger case for including it. Being featured in a single article does not mean it should be in Vonnegut's article. Wehwalt (talk) 15:41, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

And auto dealer was his job at that time, along with writing. Game designing sounds like a not very successful side hustle. Wehwalt (talk) 15:43, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

He took the auto dealer job in 1957 after the board game (worked on throughout 1956) didn't pan out. G.engelstein (talk) 19:48, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

From the biography "And So It Goes: Kurt Vonnegut: A Life" (2011):

He had another idea for additional income, though—an original war game called GHQ. He pitched it to Saalfield Publishing Company, one of the largest makers of children’s books, games, and toys in the world. The kids in the neighborhood were wild about it, he said. Included with his cover letter was a playing board, a set of instructions, and handmade pieces representing artillery, combat units, tanks, and ammo dumps. Saalfield wasn’t interested, not even remotely. Its representative replied that the game was too difficult to understand.

Shields, Charles J.. And So It Goes: Kurt Vonnegut: A Life (p. 140). Henry Holt and Co.. Kindle Edition. G.engelstein (talk) 19:46, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

I think that's good support for including it. Though car dealership then and now demands some creative skill, I think you made a good point suggesting that the board game is more closely aligned with his subsequent creative achievements in writing. An anecdote: in my youth I was introduced to the elaborate games of Avalon Hill, but my enthusiasm meant that as a mail-order import to me, there were taxes to be paid. The savvy gamers later told me to order the game kits specifically without the dice. The remaining maps, instructions, printed cut-out pieces, etc. were then regarded by the government as literature, and not subject to the normal import taxes. I think you've made a case for it being worthy of inclusion. _signed, Willondon (talk) 20:09, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree. Obviously it wasn't part of why he became well known, but neither was failing at owning a Saab dealership. Doesn't seem WP:UNDUE to just mention it. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 22:04, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Very well, I've restored it and cleaned up the referencing some, and made it a bit less slangy. Wehwalt (talk) 22:34, 13 October 2024 (UTC)