Talk:Ecaterina Szabo

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External links modified

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I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Ecaterina Szabo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120406105408/http://www.gymn-forum.net/Results/WChamps/Women/1983_ef.html to http://www.gymn-forum.net/Results/WChamps/Women/1983_ef.html

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External links modified

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Hiding her Hungarian background?

The article currently says, "... she was named Katalin, which was later changed to Ecaterina by the Communists to try to hide her Hungarian background." Wasn't her surname "Szabo" already a big giveaway of Hungarian background? The "sz" letter combination appears to be very typical of the Hungarian language, but not of the Romanian language. (The "sz" letter combination currently appears 148 times on the main page of the Hungarian Wikipedia, and zero times on the main page of the Romanian Wikipedia.) That would be like wanting to hide the Hispanic background of someone named "Maria Garcia" by changing her name to "Mary Garcia." --Metropolitan90 (talk) 14:44, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Metropolitan90, there is no debate that Szabo is from Szabó and the word is from Hungarian (Romanian does not have the letter "ó"). Despite, typically in the era of of Communism, if it was viable, such modifications had been carried out. No matter you or I or others who have more knowledge of the subject notice what you refer of. See i.e. Katalin Varga -> Ecaterina Varga, or László Bölöni -> Ladislau Boloni (or later sometimes already written as Bölöni). Given names were turned if possible to Romanian accepted equivavalents. The question is, if the name was not automatically turned in the birth certificate, but especially later - i.e. considering those people who represented Romania internationally in sport events than the issue may be very certain.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:33, 8 March 2017 (UTC))

Is it possible that we could say that she was required to use the name "Ecaterina" instead of "Katalin" in order to de-emphasize or downplay her Hungarian background, rather than to "hide" her Hungarian background? Would the sources support that? --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:31, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Well, I dont think that such clear disctinction could be made. Just another example, regarding Slovakia, it was said a ethnic Hungarian football player, József Gáspár was invited in the national team but the condition was to write his name as Gaspar (= removing Hungarian diacritics), but he refused and he did not play. We could raise again how much this could be interpreted as "hiding" vs "downplaying", however, I think these cases are lead by a common goal, just sometimes with a more or less result. Now I searched a source, (Sport identity, Sport results in the context of ethnicity, minority - Pompiliu Nicolae Constantin - The cosmetization of the image of the sport people belonging to ethnic minorities in the Communist Romania):

"Katalin Szabó who was born in Zagon, Covasna was introduced to the Romanian sport public as Ecaterina Szabo. It is less known, that the Securitate advised to the girl's parents that they should change their family name to Sabău, however, the parents refused this. These were substantially influencing the perception of the Romanian sport public. However, the fans of the domestic sport knew the ethnic background of the sport people even if the Communist regime monopolizated and filtered all the information that would reach the public."(KIENGIR (talk) 11:20, 11 March 2017 (UTC))

Category:Székely

Is there any source where she self-identifies as a Székely? The fact that she was born in Székely Land is not enough for this inclusion. 123Steller (talk) 11:56, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

At first glance, I've found these sources: [1], [2], [3], in these her Székely being is emphasized.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:22, 11 March 2017 (UTC))

KIENGIR, in some cases (for instance Zoltán Kelemen (figure skater) and Emil Imre), the inclusion seems to be based on the argument that the person is a Hungarian from Székely Land. If we know that person X is a Hungarian from Székely Land, can we unquestionably affirm that he/she is a Székely?

I have 3 questions:

• If a Hungarian from Budapest moves to Miercurea Ciuc/Csíkszereda, does he become a Székely?
• If a Székely from Miercurea Ciuc/Csíkszereda moves to Budapest does he remain a Székely?
• If someone is born in Miercurea Ciuc/Csíkszereda from Budapestan parents, is he a Székely?
• If someone is born in the United States from Székely parents, is he a Székely too? 123Steller (talk) 22:27, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

123Steller,

You have 4 questions, answers in order (in a clear scientific manner :) ):

• NO (*NOTE - in case if that Hungarian had Székely roots or is Székely due to his parents or he moved earlier to Hungary than by moving back he cannot be a Székely again that he already is = such "transition" does not exist by changing location)

• YES

• NO (*NOTE - in case the parents have Székely roots or are Székelys then YES)

• YES

NOTE2 - according to some early or present-day laws, you have the right to declare your ethnicity as you wish (even if it has no connection to your real roots)

However, the sources presented explicity refer of her Székely being "if a Székely reach the Olmypic games", "the gymnast of Székely origin" etc.(KIENGIR (talk) 11:46, 12 March 2017 (UTC))

KIENGIR, I agree with the inclusion of Ecaterina Szabo into Category:Székely. However, I've noticed in the cases of Zoltán Kelemen (figure skater) and Emil Imre that the inclusion is (apparently) based only on the argument that the person is a Hungarian from Székely Land. I wonder if it is a good idea to also create a category named Category:Hungarian people from Székely Land where to include them instead. 123Steller (talk) 09:12, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

123Steller, I understand your struggle for verifiability and accuracy. I think the argument you refer of does not necessarily hold, even if in such cases they do not struggle to have a source, is quite easily can be decided who is Székely or not, considering a relatively small community where i. e. possible new settlers from Hungary or other parts of Romania into Székely Land surely are not identified as Székelys and they won't identify themselves like so. I think sometimes they check the Hungarian Wikipedia, there are quite reliable information regarding this. However, 100% verifiability in current conditions cannot be guaranteed - as it is by also another categories, there are put/removed some categories I am astonished in much more heavy questions or even debate the validity of them, it is a mess, unfortunately we have to say. I don't think such Category:Hungarian people from Székely Land would be needed, it would just complicate the things, since this would be valid only a very-very small people that may never may be even mentioned in Wikipedia. I think if someone's Székely being may be contested and debated, the one should present a source to support this.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:07, 16 March 2017 (UTC))

External links modified (January 2018)

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101111090240/http://www.gymn.ca/gymnasticgreats/wag/szabo.htm to http://www.gymn.ca/gymnasticgreats/wag/szabo.htm

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