Talk:2300 Arena

CZW/CHIKARA Wrestle Factory

The Wrestle Factory is now only the training school for CHIKARA because CZW has re-opened the CZW Wrestling Academy.

http://www.czwrestling.com/Home/school.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.127.152.132 (talk) 01:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

Requested move 2014

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 15:30, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

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2300 Arena → ECW Arena – The article was moved from an unrelated name in December, seemingly as soon as this current name was unveiled, neither is the WP:COMMONNAME. ECW Arena is the name which gave it the most exposure as it was the home to Extreme Championship Wrestling, many of its television broadcasts and pay-per-views. The ECW legacy is still part of the building as it still holds many hardcore wrestling shows as well as the Hardcore Hall of Fame, which honors mainly ECW alumni. LM2000 (talk) 06:59, 11 August 2014 (UTC) LM2000 (talk) 06:59, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

• support - as nominator.LM2000 (talk) 06:59, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
• Support - only two organizations used the arena for more than 50 times. Of the two, Extreme Championship Wrestling (the #3 US company at one point) is clearly the bigger name than Combat Zone Wrestling. ECW is also the biggest name to have used the show more than 5 times. starship.paint ~ regal 13:00, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
• support - CLEARLY the common name. Everyone calls it that no matter what the official name is. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen) (talk) 17:01, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - ECW Arena is a nickname. A similar example is for Boleyn Ground which is commonly known as Upton Park but the title of the article uses the official title. Similarly City of Manchester Stadium is commonly known as Etihad Stadium for sponsorship reasons, but again, the title of the article uses the official name. RealDealBillMcNeal (talk) 14:26, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Erroneous statement?

In light of IPPVs, "To this day, Barely Legal remains the only wrestling event to be broadcast live on television from the venue." is factually incorrect. Chikara, Combat Zone and WSU have broadcasted live IPPVs from it --68.198.205.218 (talk) 02:12, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

An iPPV is not on televison, it's on the internet. TheNewMinistry (talk) 16:40, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 1 April 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Jenks24 (talk) 20:09, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

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ECW Arena → 2300 Arena – Common names only apply to defunct venues. Candlestick Park is titled as such since it's defunct - if it was still in operation, the current venue name would be the name of the article (3Com Park if it was 2002, for instance). 2300 Arena is still an active and popular venue - calling it ECW Arena at this point creates confusion for those wishing to visit the venue. They are one and the same. --Relisted. Steel1943 (talk) 02:05, 13 May 2015 (UTC) TheNewMinistry (talk) 04:13, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

• Support - as nominator TheNewMinistry (talk) 05:35, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
• Question - is there a policy or guideline about the naming conventions of non-defunct venues? GaryColemanFan (talk) 22:17, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
• Comment the nominator is wrong. WP:UCN applies to all articles. WP:OFFICIALNAME specifically states we do not use official names, we use common names. If the common name is the official name, then so be it, if it is not, then it is not used for article names. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 09:52, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
• Comment - The owner of 2300 Arena acknowledges in this article that he cannot legally use the name "ECW Arena" since the ECW acronym is owned by WWE. By keeping this article titled "ECW Arena", we are creating confusion and implying a connection between the current venue and its former tenant (when there clearly no longer is one). Google News currently returns 413 results regarding recent and future events at 2300 Arena (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=%222300+arena%22&tbm=nws). I don't see why moving the article back to 2300 Arena, and then placing a redirect link from ECW Arena to 2300 Arena is not sufficient. Not doing this opens a giant can of worms and would mean articles like Rogers Centre would have to be moved to SkyDome (which is clearly its common name).TheNewMinistry (talk) 14:20, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Yes, we should return it to SkyDome, as that would conform to UCN. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 16:39, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
  • I requested a move on the Rogers Centre talk page - let's see what happens. TheNewMinistry (talk) 18:14, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose The current input at Talk:Rogers Centre is that WP:COMMONNAME applies to venues as much as it applies to other subjects and ECW Arena is this subject's common name, it gets more than double the google news hits 2300 Arena does. Most of the sources that do use "2300 Arena" make sure to also mention that it was formerly known as the ECW Arena so that people know what they're talking about.LM2000 (talk) 02:10, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose per comments at Rogers Centre discussion. This move doesn't seem to be supported by policy. GaryColemanFan (talk) 22:09, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
• Support. Looking at the local press, it appears that "2300 Arena" has become more common than "ECW Arena" since the name change. Most sources since then that use the old name specify that it's the "former ECW Arena". As to the last few comments, the RM at Rogers Centre resulted in no move away from the current name.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:08, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment - If anything, that seems to point to the fact that ECW Arena is the more notable name, since they add the "former ECW Arena" for clarification, since people are more likely to know it by that name rather than 2300 Arena. GaryColemanFan (talk) 15:22, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
• Comment - "2300 Arena" now registers more results than "ECW Arena" on Google News (1050 to 469). I think the time has come to move the page.TheNewMinistry (talk) 21:16, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment - That doesn't seem like a useful way to determine the best known name. That would determine which is the current name, since the internet wasn't as prevalent during ECW's run. Using the Google News argument, one could say that Mount Rushmore should be redone to eliminate the current faces and replace them with Barack Obama, since he gets 11.3 million Google News hits, which is more than the other four (Washington - 456,000; Jefferson - 129,000; Lincoln - 154,000; Roosevelt - 53,000) combined. GaryColemanFan (talk) 15:22, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
    • Comment - Your strawman argument doesn't change the fact that the venue is now known primarily as 2300 Arena. TheNewMinistry (talk) 17:42, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
      • Comment - I'm not trying to change facts. I'm explaining why Google News results are pretty much useless to prove anything other than the fact that the internet is in more common usage than it was in the past. To determine what the common name is, one might want to think about the historical use: warehouse, bingo, wrestling, boxing, MMA, and concerts. Hardly anyone would think of it as a warehouse or concert hall. The MMA and boxing have been much less famous than the wrestling. Some people would think of it as a bingo hall, as in "that old bingo hall where they had ECW events." Most people familiar with the building would know of it through its connection to wrestling. Wrestling fans would think of it as ECW Arena, the location that was used for over 7 and a half years as the home of one of the biggest wrestling promotions in the country, with a national television deal and a title recognized by Pro Wrestling Illustrated as a true world championship. Very few people would think of it as 2300 Arena, where it has been home to a little-known wrestling school, less than two dozen assorted shows, and hundreds of vacant nights. GaryColemanFan (talk) 19:58, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
        • Comment - Google News is an accurate reflection of what the current Common Name of the venue is, as referenced by news sources worldwide. Trying to discredit the last 15 years of the venue's history by making false statements (ECW ran 105 shows at the venue, other promotions have run 343 shows since they went out of business - for the record) is not going to get you anywhere.TheNewMinistry (talk) 03:09, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
          • Comment - You're not proposing a change to XPW Arena, Alhambra Arena, or any of the other in-between names. Yes, a bunch of shows with nowhere near the publicity, notoriety, or notability happened at the arena. As 2300 Arena, very little has happened there--as I said above, "it has been home to a little-known wrestling school, less than two dozen assorted shows, and hundreds of vacant nights." Don't accuse me of making false statements just because you misread my words. Nothing notable has happened there under the 2300 Arena name. A national television deal in ECW Arena trumps a reunion show for an unknown 1980s boy band in 2300 Arena. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:42, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
• Support As the current common name, that is to say the name most commonly used in current writings, as shown by the Google News results. It makes little sense to adhere to an old nickname. Time has moved on, and so should we. oknazevad (talk) 00:48, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose Sources includes the old name. That means the arena stills known as ECW Arena. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 17:19, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment Only about 60 sources include both "2300 Arena" and "ECW Arena" TheNewMinistry (talk) 17:24, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
    • As Gary told you, in the mid 90's internet wasn't the real deal. For years, the arena was called ECW Arena and sources include the old name (not the alhambra or CZW arena, the ECW Arena). I think the ECW Arena stills the common name.--HHH Pedrigree (talk) 17:31, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose. While the venue may be better known locally as the "2300 Arena", it achieved global prominence and lasting notoriety as the "ECW Arena". Hundreds of syndicated television episodes were filmed in the venue during its time as the "ECW Arena". I question whether any of the events held under the "2300 Arena" banner have received the same coverage. McPhail (talk) 19:43, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment Do you want me to bust out a list of all the boxing events that ran live from the venue on ESPN? Because there's tons.TheNewMinistry (talk) 22:19, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
    • As you are proposing the move, the onus of providing proof is on you. ECW on TNN aired from the ECW Arena for a year, averaging a 1.0 Neilson rating. [1] ECW Hardcore TV was syndicated from the ECW Arena for seven years. That's not to mention the multiple pay-per-view events, the two video games, the several books - including Mick Foley's autobiography, which was a New York Times bestseller - and the dozens of VHS/DVD releases - including "The Rise and Fall of ECW", at one point the second highest selling WWE DVD of all time - that refer to the "ECW Arena". That is a massive body of work referring to the "ECW Arena". If you can provide evidence that events airing from the "2300 Arena" have received greater exposure, then by all means I will change my vote. McPhail (talk) 18:19, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. The arena became globally famous as the "ECW Arena" and nothing that has been done there since has reached that level. Sources consistently making a point to include "the former ECW Arena" into every mention of the name "2300 Arena", makes this evident. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen) (LOLTNA) 21:23, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
• Support not just per nom. We should be avoiding commercial titles if at all possible. Red Slash 23:54, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

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Requested move 24 August 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to 2300 Arena per WP:NAMECHANGES. WP:RECENTISM talks about an entirely different matter, so I can say it was misquoted as an argument. Substantial evidence was given by TheNewMinistry and Cuchullain that the sources took on the new name. No such user (talk) 06:58, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

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ECW Arena → 2300 Arena – The name of our event venue changed over a year ago to 2300 Arena. It is listed as such within Wikipedia, but the Title has not changed. Below are links to articles referring to this name. http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/07/18/republicans-ecw-arena-dnc-week/, http://www.15rounds.com/five-philadelphia-fighters-on-undercard-this-fridays-pbc-on-espn-espn-deportes-card-at-the-2300-arena/. Arebbecchi (talk) 17:35, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Please allow us to the change the name of this. We are the owner of the business that this page is talking about, and the name is incorrect. We have a lot of sources and can even provide tax information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arebbecchi (talk • contribs) 17:51, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

• Strong support - The venue has been on national TV as 2300 Arena many times in the past few years. However, the owner of the building (Arebbecchi) shouldn't be claiming ownership of the page. He already tried to delete information that he didn't want on there for whatever reason. If you want an updated photo of the building for the infobox Arebbecchi - take one yourself and upload it! And make it a photo of the actual building, not just a close-up of a sign. TheNewMinistry (talk) 16:03, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
• Comment - I wasn't aware how wikipedia worked - new to the site! Was just trying to update information to make it more accurate for the establishment. The photo is one that I took myself, on my phone - When I tried to upload a true photo of the front of the building, I got an error message, so I used the next best one I had. Will work on an updated photo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arebbecchi (talk • contribs) 21:11, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
• Support. Per WP:NAMECHANGES, more weight is given to sources that came out after the name change. It was already evident at the time of the last RM that newer sources primarily use the newer name, and the trend is even clearer today. For instance, the Philadelphia Enquirer uses "2300 Arena" far more than "ECW Arena").--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:21, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose Per reasons in previous RMs. We go by WP:COMMONNAME and are not subject to WP:RECENTISM. The venue became internationally famous as the ECW Arena and no name since has come close to getting that much coverage.LM2000 (talk) 09:09, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
  • Comment Google Trends shows that 2300 Arena is now searched more often than ECW Arena - https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=ECW%20Arena,2300%20ArenaTheNewMinistry (talk) 16:15, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
    • Again, see WP:RECENTISM. 2300 has had this name for over three years and just overtook ECW arena in searches. 2300 hasn't even come close to getting the searches that ECW did in 2006, and like @GaryColemanFan: and @HHH Pedrigree: pointed out in the last discussion, that doesn't even cover its heyday in the 90s-2001.LM2000 (talk) 17:19, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
    • Comment What about New Era Field - why was that moved immediately a couple weeks ago when a hat company bought naming rights? Absolutely nothing has happened at that venue under the name New Era Field that is notable.TheNewMinistry (talk) 18:29, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
      • I don't know, you would have to ask them that (WP:OSE). We had this same discussion last year and you had a similar one on Talk:Rogers Centre; ECW Arena is clearly WP:COMMONNAME. I know it's tempting to give in to recentism and move to current titles but that's not always based on policy.LM2000 (talk) 19:08, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose - Still much more famous as ECW Arena. Naming conventions state that the best known name is to be used, so it doesn't matter what the current name is, unless it has become more notable under its current name than its former name. It hasn't, so it needs to stay at ECW Arena. It should be noted that the first of the two articles noted by the owner has both "ECW Arena" (not 2300 arena) in the url and title, and the second is essentially a press release, which does nothing to establish the common name of the arena. GaryColemanFan (talk) 19:17, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
• Support per Cuchullain and WP:NAMECHANGES. It is very clear that recent sources use the new name, the old name has become redundant now.  — Amakuru (talk) 19:47, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

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