Talk:Dishonored 2

Gamescom 2015

Gamescom 2015 will be held 5-9 August. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.19.34.3 (talk) 19:50, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Engine

I've seen a lot of edits over the engine field in the infobox, whether it should be listed as Void, or id Tech 5, "Modified id Tech 5", or even "Void (id Tech 5)" -- or whether the field should be outright removed. Anyway, I'm bringing this up on the talk page to build a firm consensus to point to and hopefully settle the matter. Personally, it's not something I feel particularly strongly about. I've seen the engine -- as "Void", not simply "id Tech 5" -- come up a fair bit when going through sources, so I guess I'd prefer to mention it, but simply listing Void on its own isn't going to tell much at a glance, and as long as its in the prose proper I'm satisfied. I don't want to be too blindly bound to template documentation here, but yes, obviously the Void engine specifically does not and is unlikely to ever have an article, though I am concerned over whether simply listing the engine as id Tech 5 with no other note is accurate and reflects the majority of the sources.

As an aside, I've also seen sources refer to the game using id Tech 6, not 5. But I've seen a lot more mention 5, so that's the one we should probably stick to there on that front. – The Millionth One (talk) (contribs) 19:56, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

It's either Void, or id Tech 5. If id Tech 5, we can link to it. If void, it should be omitted, per template instructions. Note that the prose can still discussion it just fine. I would lean towards omit. -- ferret (talk) 20:55, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Anything but listing id Tech 5 in the engine infobox. Its engine name is Void, and the engine field should reflect that, no matter it is based on it Tech or not. AdrianGamer (talk) 05:41, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

I've done a string search in memory during a active game session and have came to the conclusion this is idtech5 without a doubt. " #define MAX_DECAL_INSTANCES_NUMBITS 8 // If you change this, make sure you also change it in //blacksparrow/idtech5/tech5/engine/renderer/jobs/render/Render_types.h" I do not know if I will be able to upload a reference without copyright problems. Unknownzero (talk) 11:00, 16 May 2017 (UTC)unknownzero

Alright, my thanks for looking into that. I'm hesistant to actually cite that in the article, given it's in essence original research, but probably worth noting going forward, and it does make me feel more confident about the article currently naming 5 specifically. – The Millionth One (talk) (contribs) 07:00, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure its well known that Void is based on id tech 5. The issue seems to already be covered with a note. -- ferret (talk) 16:48, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Dishonored 2/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: AdrianGamer (talk · contribs) 17:03, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

 Working — AdrianGamer (talk) 17:03, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Hey, you did my first nomination. Full circle! –Cognissonance (talk) 17:32, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Sorry for butting before even the initial review can be done, but I have my own concerns about the gameplay section. Namely, before the article is approved for GA I think it really needs to cover the stealth system in a bit more detail (maybe nothing too in-depth, but certainly it's important to at least note that this is a first-person stealth game ala Thief and not something like Invisible, Inc.), as well as mention some of the non-power equipment and combat mechanics. I'd also consider maybe mentioning how the player can manipulate elements of the environment (chloroform bottles and the like), but those two are the immediate biggest holes I'd see, the things that make me stop and feel like the article is incomplete. I don't think this should be too difficult to add, and I'm willing to help if there are any problems. – The Millionth One (talk) (contribs) 20:59, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

I'll see what I can draw from that. Shouldn't be too difficult. –Cognissonance (talk) 23:25, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

@The Millionth One: I would appreciate help with the rest, as you might know better what's specifically missing. –Cognissonance (talk) 10:32, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

I added a bit on the stealth section, as you saw. That's me fine for now, though I think the gameplay screenshots we're using could be better (what exactly do these two images illustrate, and how effective are they in doing so?). I note Dishonored uses a 34-second gameplay clip, and a similar thing could be useful -- but that's a tall order, and not one I think necessary for GA at least. I've got the game up and running, so I might see if I can take any substitute screenshot myself. – The Millionth One (talk) (contribs) 19:29, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Great work on the gameplay, really relieving to see that done. I added the screenshots to illustrate the differences in teleportation powers, but any further improvement is welcome. –Cognissonance (talk) 22:04, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Review

• The series takes place in the fictional Empire of the Isles, with the majority of Dishonored 2 set in the coastal city of Karnaca. - I personally don't think that Empire of the Isles is not really that important to note in the lead. Saying that the game is set in the fictional city of Karnaca is sufficient.

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

• After Empress Emily Kaldwin is deposed by an "otherworldly usurper" - can you paraphrase "otherworldly usurper"? You can mention the "usurper" real name as well.
  • Changed this to deposed by the witch Delilah Copperspoon. – The Millionth One (talk) (contribs) 17:17, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
• There are a multitude of ways to succeed in each given mission - Can be rephrased to "there is a multitude of ways to complete missions.}}

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

• I think that the key selling point for the game is its sandbox nature, which the lead doesn't mention.

Mentioned. –Cognissonance (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

• Ideas for a sequel to Dishonored began while developing its downloadable content - You have mentioned that this is the sequel to Dishonored already, so this is repetition.

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

• Emily Kaldwin was first proposed as a playable character and brought about the advancement of the timeline - This sentence assumes that players knew Emily was only a girl in the first game, which is not ideal.

Reorganised the sentence. I'm not sure there is any other way to clarify. –Cognissonance (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm stupid. Clarified. –Cognissonance (talk) 07:29, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• The design was influenced by paintings and sculptures. - Design of what?

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

• Criticism was directed at the lack of focus of the overarching narrative, while the individual missions were praised for their creative designs. - This part can be presented better if you group all the praise together.

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

• I had a brief look at the article before I start the review, and I was impressed with the newly added information. Well done on that.
• Coin is required to buy these upgrades, which again may be found throughout a level or converted from other collectables. - What do you mean by "converted from other collectibles"? Selling them to vendors?

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

• Noise will cause enemies to go to investigate, including noise made by broken bottles or the player hitting the wall - Sources say " banging your sword against the wall " rather than "players hitting the wall".

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

• I think more about stealth can be mentioned, such as the fact that players can move bodies, disabling alarms, choking people etc. Is Wall of Light, traps and the rewire tools still present in the game? I remember seeing them in the first game and I don't think they were removed in this one. Is there any portions that players can use to restore health and mana? From the Kotaku source it seems like you can make use of the environment to kill enemies too, things like throwing whale lamps.

Added what you mentioned. –Cognissonance (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

• Dishonored 2 introduces non-lethal combat moves - Any example?

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:53, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• Does The Heart still made comments on different characters? How players can determine a chracter is murderous or not?

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• High chaos also impacts character dialogue and secuity level of each level. This should be mentioned as well. What are the actual gameplay effects of the bloodflies? The source seems to indicate that bloodflies will lower the number of loots players can collect in each level.

I saw it mentioned in the third paragraph. Added the security level info. Added that bloodfly nests hold loot. –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• Each level in the game is intended to have a unique "theme", in either "fiction or mechanic - You can paraphrase this.

Removed the quotation marks and added a wikilink to clarify. –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• These powers are optional and may be rejected, in which case the game is traversed in their absence - "in which case the game is traversed in their absence" is not necessary.

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• "Dark Vision", the power that more easily identifies the player's surroundings, is available to both. - It helps you see enemies cone of vision as well.

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 04:04, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• Corvo exerts a blast of wind to deflect projectiles and thrust people off - You should mention the name of the ability as well (Windblast).

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 04:04, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• circumventing dangerous checkpoints or reaching enemies unobserved - sources do not mention about "reaching enemies unobserved". Sounds odd as well.

It is my weird way of paraphrasing "Players could use this to set up attacks, disappear from view of enemies after spotted, and slip past dangerous checkpoints undetected".

• Can you slightly elaborate more on Mesmerize. It sounds quite vague, especially when compared ot the other few you have mentioned.

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• That Blink screenshot is really confusing. I don't think it is really helping readers to understand.

I will search for alternative illustration. –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• the Outsider (Robin Lord Taylor) Who is The Outsider?

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• The player enters the Royal Conservatory and discovers that after Delilah's defeat at the hands of Daud - Who is Daud?

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• The plot section is currently too long. You need to trim some of its content.

 Done Would have been shorter were it not for the exposition on the endings. Let me know if they are disposable. –Cognissonance (talk) 00:49, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Decided for myself, removed it. –Cognissonance (talk) 10:56, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

• Should note that Harvey Smith is the game's design lead.

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• Arkane did not want to go too far for fear of losing the series' gaslamp fantasy/steampunk "vibe" - You don't really need a quotation on such a common word to be honest.

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• Arkane wanted to avoid going against any broad assumptions a player may have made about his character while also giving him a "more assertive personality" - Did the source mention what they did to achieve this?

Sorta. It challenged the writers, according to the director. –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• Mitton wanted Dishonored 2 to be "visually" "a journey to a new city", though keeping the same "sensibility" of the first game and elements like "oppression, disease, magic, decay" - Four quotes in one sentence, which is excessive. You should paraphrase some of them.

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• The history of Karnaca reportedly took "about a year" to create - rephrase to approximately a year so you did not need to quote it.
  • Y Done. – The Millionth One (talk) (contribs) 17:30, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
• the team focused on developing ideas from inside the game's setting, rather than from the outside world - Not sure what this means. Can you make it more explicit?

Clarified what is meant. –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• I think you have used the quotation marks excessively. Simple words like "waves" or normal phrase like "taking up residence" don't need to be quoted. I don't think using simple phrases like this would be considered as copyright violation.

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• and considered the effect the wind would have on the way the city developed - then what is the effect?

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• The majority of the development section only talks about art and story. What about gameplay development? I see some of the Game Informer June cover articles being used, but not the video ones. From my experiences, they are often very useful. I also found some sources that aren't used but are quite useful.

• This Rolling Stone source talks about the challenge in making Dishonored, and that voiced characters were once planned for the first game
• This interview talks about designing the game for players who reject the powers, and BioShock 2's influence
• This may also be useful as well

Added the info from the articles. –Cognissonance (talk) 22:48, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• Dishonored co-directors Raphael Colantonio and Harvey Smith - Should wikilink Colantonio

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• Emily was featured on the front cover of the November 2016 issue of Edge and of PC Gamer UK in December - Should use a secondary source to indicate the significance of Emily being featured in magazines' cover. If there is none, this may not be something important at all.

Removed. –Cognissonance (talk) 01:12, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

• On its release, PC players reported issues with performance - Examples?

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• which was said to better accommodate side quests—opined as the chief incentive for playing Dishonored 2. - Gameplay section doesn't mention anything about side-quests.

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 04:14, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• You should wikilink Game Informer, IGN, GameSpot, PC Gamer and GamesRadar.

WP:OVERLINKING? They were already linked in pre-release. –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• I don't think Clockwork Mansion and A Crack in the Slab were praised by the GameSpot reviewer only. Almost most reviewers signled it out as the best levels in the game. More info on the two levels should be added.
  • Agreed. I've done a bit of source-digging on the former already; this interview and this developer write-up are both potentially worth using, while these articles ([1][2][3]) focus on the Clockwork Mansion for critical purposes. Also PC Gamer called it one of 2016's best levels. This article, meanwhile, might be useful for talking about Crack in the Slab. Otherwise, there's a fair few pre-release preview pieces on the Mansion, back from E3. – The Millionth One (talk) (contribs) 17:51, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

@The Millionth One: Added information from the articles that concerned reception. Having a hard time finding sources for A Crack in the Slab, and even harder time with the E3 pre-release reception on the singled out levels. Only walkthroughs and trailer previews in the search results. –Cognissonance (talk) 02:12, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

I went through the reviews, and Clockwork Mansion is praised more times than A Crack in the Slab. Nonetheless, I established that they were both subject to this in the first paragraph of reception using two sources, only one of which mentions it by name. –Cognissonance (talk) 00:11, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

• The reception section is quite neat, but it will be better if the arrangement is better. For example, one paragraph is dedicated to gameplay reception, another dedicated to story reception etc.

I wish I knew how to enact that kind of style. The same complaint was made in the GA review of Horizon Zero Dawn. –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• It was the best selling game in Steam in its week of releaes though

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

• Dishonored 2 re-entered the UK charts in the fourth week of May 2017, ranked in 8th place with a 1,267 percent rise in sales. - because of discount, which should be mentioned

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

GA Criteria per WP:WIAGA
1	Well-written
1a	the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct
1b	it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation
2	Verifiable with no original research
2a	it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline
2b	reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose)
2c	it contains no original research
2d	it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism
3	Broad in its coverage
3a	it addresses the main aspects of the topic
3b	it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style)
4	Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each
5	Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute
6	Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio
6a	media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content
6b	media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions
Cmt	The article is great, though there are some issues with the use of quotes. The gameplay section is much improved, but the story section still needs some work. The development section could be more substantial than it is right now. I always have great appreciation to editors who work on big titles like this since these articles takes a long time to edit due to the large amount of press coverage, so I think you have done an excellent job with all the recent GAs you have worked on. (I would have liked to work on some of those actually) — AdrianGamer (talk) 16:04, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

@AdrianGamer: I think it's time for a second look. How's the article now? –Cognissonance (talk) 03:50, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

I don't think removing the part about endings completely is a good idea. They are still part of the game's plot. I think it is ok if you simply add a subsection called "endings". AdrianGamer (talk) 05:37, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done –Cognissonance (talk) 08:12, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

I have read the article once again, and I didn't find any issue that may prevent it from being promoted. Dishonored 2 is now a . Congratulations! AdrianGamer (talk) 12:07, 6 July 2017 (UTC)