Talk:Black Canadians

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Untitled

Why is this article named like this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thereedeemedperson22 (talk • contribs) 06:20, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

General discussion

I Would like to point out that, African Canadian is a incorrect term. The American stood for North America, not the United States of America.

Irrelevant. The community is free to make its own choices as to how it identifies. It doesn't matter how US-Americans use the word "American"; if it lands inappropriately on Canadian ears, that's the final word no matter what. Bearcat 02:10, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The statement "In spite of the great contributions Black Canadians have made, many still face challenges in the society." is a subjective one.

I recommend "In spite of the great contributions Black Canadians have made" be deleted or replaced with "Although many believe Black Canadians have made great contributions..."

Changed that DeirYassin 21:44, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• That statement is also subjective - if you review the list of Black Canadians, in many cases their contributions to Canadian society are absolutely inarguable. Bearcat 10:05, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Racist comment by 66.63.126.171 reverted Apr 13. Bearcat 22:59, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Jarome Iginla is listed as a famous black Canadian. Iginla is in fact of mixed racial origins, as pointed out in his wikipedia article. I don't know if this means his name should be moved or should remain in that section.

The article mentions Exodusters. I was not aware Exodusters had made it to Canada at any point (it was primarily a movement from the American South to Kansas). "The Blacks in Canada: A History", widely considered the definitive history of Black Canadians, doesn't seem to include any mention of them (I could be wrong though). Can anybody provide a source for this?

Is Pinball Clemons an American or Canadian? I'm not sure of his current legal status in Canada but he is certainly an American citizen.

• Thanks to Samaritan for the clarification on Pinball. Based on his permanent resident status and prominent role in Canadian society, I say he should definitely be kept on the list.--Daul21 06:36, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

"Caribbean" descent?

To say that Black Canadian refers to Canadians of "African or Caribbean descent" seems misleading; many Caribbean people are of non-African origin (especially Chinese and Indian; and for that matter, European) and do not consider themselves black. Those Caribbean people of African descent would be included by saying simple "Canadians of African descent" only. So, I propose to remove the "or Caribbean" from the definition. Sharkford 20:33, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

On the other hand, many West Indians of non-African descent consider themselves "black", especially when they find themselves in "white people country". Many Trinidadians see "black" as a term for "non-white" and prefer the term "negro" for people of African descent. Guettarda 21:34, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

As the article makes quite clear, in the particular context of Canada there's a very real tension between Caribbean and non-Caribbean black Canadians as to the definition and labelling of their communities. Even taking into account the fact that Caribbean blacks are usually (although, as Guettarda correctly points out above, not always) of African heritage when you trace further back, they object quite strongly to the elision of their Caribbean history. I've tried a rewrite which is hopefully clearer about the complexity of the issue, but simply removing "or Caribbean" isn't the way to do it in this case. Bearcat 22:42, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I'm aware of the tension between Black Canadians of (recent) Caribbean origin and those who trace their lineage otherwise (overheard: "My, what a lovely accent you have; what exotic island are you from?"—"Cape Breton!"); and also between "afro-" and "indo-" people within the former community, though even on re-reading I don't think I'd agree that the article makes this particularly clear. But perhaps this is material for a different article. I was unaware that Caribbean people with no African ancestry (for example, Trinidadians of solely Indian or Chinese ancestry) grouped themselves as Black, so many thanks for that information. At any rate I think the rewrite is very good. Sharkford 14:14, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

I always thought that Black Canadians of Jamaican origin alone constituted about 50% of the general Black population in Canada ( I read in another article about Jamaicans being unfairl deported that there were more then 300 000 Jamaicans living in Canada), I'm also surprised the African % is as high as 16, are these numbers accurate? If they are, that's very interesting, where are these sources from? To the previous posts, for this article 'Black' refers to people of African descent but I also wondered if the African/Caribbean statistics omitted non-Black people from those regions who are classified as 'African' and Caribbean on census--161.57.100.3 18:31, 29 October 2005 (UTC)Anonymous X

I really don't know where the stats are from; I didn't add them. But we would certainly need an annotated factual reference to back up any assertion that Jamaicans alone constituted 50% of the community. Bearcat 08:39, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I think I've rephrased the intro in a way that will please everyone. Please take a look.--Cuchullain 22:06, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I must add that "African-American" is not "the accepted terminology" in the United States. Especially in the last year there has been a strong current of opinion away from the term and toward "black" or "Black," for many of the same reasons that seem to emerge in Canada. This is largely because "African-American" typically referred to former slaves only, and not Caribbean or African immigrants, even though hyphenations are typically used to describe immigrant identities. A ethnonym that excludes Barack Obama certain won't do in this day and age. dave —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.135.139.207 (talk) 23:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I think within the context of this article it's pretty clear we are referring to black Africans origin and refer to any people of African descent. Even census canada is using the common use of the term during the recensement. http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/tbt/Rp-eng.cfm?A=R&APATH=3&D1=0&D2=0&D3=0&D4=0&D5=0&D6=0&DETAIL=0&DIM=0&FL=A&FREE=0&GC=01&GID=837928&GK=1&GRP=1&LANG=E&O=D&PID=92333&PRID=0&PTYPE=88971%2C97154&S=0&SHOWALL=0&SUB=0&TABID=1&THEME=80&Temporal=2006&VID=0&VNAMEE=&VNAMEF= Analyzer99 (talk) 12:56, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll give other few examples: http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=37442&Cr=slave&Cr1= http://www.canadaviews.ca/2011/01/24/february-proclaimed-african-heritage-month-in-nova-scotia/ Analyzer99 (talk) 13:50, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

About Caribbean

We should leave caribbean Canadian. Blacks who are African only make 1 in 5 Blacks, so why should blacks in general be called African. If anyone went to the Caribbean and called them African, they would give you looks of deepest loathing.

- Funny how it's the other way around now lol. I hate being called Carribbean. I'm not an 'island gyal'. Africans are immigrating in greater numbers, but I think Africans should have pages for their respective ethnicities and not be lumped in.

Identity labels

Gawd, how I wish Toronto Star links stayed active more than a week...this would be a really choice external link here. Bearcat 08:08, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Michaëlle Jean

I notice that User:Bearcat removed Michaëlle Jean from the list of Black Canadians. He claims that "we" have "repeated" many times that she does not belong on the list, but I don't see any discussion at all on this talk page regarding her inclusion (and I checked before adding her name in the first place). I think that Bearcat is acting unilaterally, and the fact that several people have apparently (without my prior knowledge) previously added her to the list shows that the consensus is actually in the other direction. Andrew Levine 22:10, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I didn't say she doesn't belong in the list; I said she's already mentioned in the article. The rule on Wikipedia is that we don't list a person multiple times in an article of this type. Bearcat 22:26, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Where is this rule stated? Andrew Levine 22:30, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Is there a valid reason why she should be listed twice? Is there a valid reason why she should get to be the only person listed twice in the entire article? It doesn't have to be a stated rule to be valid — it's a basic editing rule that you don't put two different entries for a single person in a single list. How does this qualify as some kind of exception? Bearcat 22:37, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

There are a number of featured lists, recognized as conforming to Wikipedia's editing guidelines, which mention a few items in the lead and then go on to include them in the list that follows. Among them are:

• List of members of the Baseball Hall of Fame (chronological) (Roberto, Lou Gehrig, and Addie Joss)
• List of English words containing Q not followed by U (qat and faqir)
• List of snakes of Trinidad and Tobago (fer-de-lance and the Bushmaster)

...and probably many others, as I only clicked on a few. If you want to know a good reason why she should be listed a second time, you need only count the number of times people have noticeable absence from the bulleted list and added her to it. I think many people are likely to simply scroll past the prose section of the page until they find something like a bulleted list, and they may zip past the brief mention of Jean in the lead, and be confused at why she's not there. Andrew Levine 22:43, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

On form, I agree with Bearcat's point; on usability, I agree with Andrew's, and I tend to think, here, the latter wins the day. Samaritan 22:45, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, you know, maybe I'm different from most people, but when I see a person mentioned in the expository section of an article and then repeated in the subsequent list, that doesn't increase the article's usability for me — it only makes it look sloppily edited, which inherently reduces the article's value. YMMV, I suppose, but I fail to see any convincing reason why I should revise my view of how this kind of thing comes across to the reader, because I don't for a second believe that my perceptions are abnormal. Bearcat 22:59, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Bearcat, let me know if my latest edit to the page is a suitable compromise. I removed Jean from the lead and added her to the bulleted list. Hopefully this resolves the issue of "special treatment." Andrew Levine 23:08, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Seems fair. Glad we were able to resolve this without bloodshed :-) Bearcat 23:12, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Before long, we should spin off List of Black Canadians; there's certainly much more to be written on Black Canadian history and communities in the main article body... Samaritan 23:11, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd also agree with that... Bearcat 23:12, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Demographic question

This article at one time contained an unsourced claim that half of all black Canadians were of Jamaican origin alone. Then, when somebody provided an actual sourced demographic breakdown, the percentage of Jamaicans was around 38, so the sentence in question was changed to "a third" accordingly. Now, all of a sudden, the claim is back to half, and the sourced percentages have been taken back out. Can somebody explain why we're removing actual sources from Wikipedia articles, and/or provide a real source to support the "half" claim? Remember that information in Wikipedia has to be verifiable. Bearcat 15:46, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't have the stats but I do know that roughly 60% of all afro-canadians are jamaicans. Even if you were to come to Toronto or Vancouver you will see some Ghana's and ethiopians but the majority are probabbly jamaicans —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ihba (talk • contribs) 00:34, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Link for Black Canadians Page

Black Crafters Guild http://craftsguild.net African Diasporans creating, decorating, and creatively altering items by hand.

Afrocentric Homeschooler Association http://blackhomeschool.org

Both nonprofit organisations are completely free and based in Ontario, Canada.

Deletion

In AshleyMorton's words, "I believe this article's topic to be something that neither requires nor merits a Wikipedia article. I believe that the current low quality of the article (which seems to be not much more than a recitation of demographic statistics with the addition of a single paragraph of not-fully-relevant history) does not, as some might suggest, mean that the article should be improved. I believe, instead, that it demonstrates that a Wikipedia-quality article cannot be written on this topic. The poor article quality is, of course, just a symptom of the lack of encyclopedic nature of this topic. First, I believe that this article has been created to bolster a school of thought which believes that this identity exists. An article on that sort of racialized thinking might be valid, of course, but that's not the same thing as creating an article which should only exist if you buy into their belief system.

As an example of the sort of confused thinking that must have lead to the creation of this article, the "Ethnic group" infobox template has been used. However, this confounds the concept of a skin colour and an "ethnicity". Ethnicity, as reported by Statistics Canada (for example), includes most national identities that can be seriously considered. "Quebecois" (apologies for lack of accents) is included, as is "Canadian", "Irish", "Lebanese" and "Ethiopian". THOSE are ethnicities (or at least, they're worthy of Wikipedia articles, because they clearly encompass a set of people who understand themselves by the label. However, the set of people who understand their own ethnicity to be "Black Canadian" is very different from the set of people described by the label.

Finally, I will head off the most obvious and useless argument - which has been used both in the article and on its talk page. In fact, the first sentence of the article is, I believe, nothing more than an attempt to justify the very existence of the article. Any article that must do that is on shaky ground.) The argument basically says that because StatsCan counts it, it must be a valid article. This is an irrelevant point, as StatsCan counts numerous things that are not worthy of articles - can you picture an article with the title "Single Family Dwellings in Kenora" ??? AshleyMorton 16:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)"

I think this applies to this article greatly.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by RyanRP (talk • contribs).

RyanRP is unhappy with other editors at talk:White Canadian, and is making a WP:POINT. —Michael Z. 2006-12-05 23:40 Z

• I agree that the same academic standards should be applied to all race/ethnic articles on Wikipedia. The logic that is being used to propose deletion of the White Canadian article can just as easily be applied to this article and similar articles. Spylab 00:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

No, it can't. "Black Canadian" is a specific cultural identity with a legitimately encyclopedic common history, a legitimately encyclopedic social and cultural context. "White Canadian" is just a weird POV attempt to create an imaginary equivalence that doesn't actually exist in the real world. Bearcat 01:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Matthew DeCosta or Mathieu Da Costa?

What's the correct spelling? Both spellings appear in this article. Spylab 23:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Improved definition

I changed the opening to be more accurate and simple. The old definition left out many people who are considered, and consider themselves, black Canadians. For example, the old definition referred to citizens, which excludes people who have landed immigrant status. Also some black people might not be able to directly trace their ancestry back to Africa.

The term black Canadian refers to black people who reside in Canada.

Most black Canadians could trace their ancestry back to people who were indigenous to Africa. The vast majority have relatively recent origins in the Caribbean, while others trace their lineage to the first slaves brought by British and French colonists to British North America.

Spylab 00:01, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Article needs references

This article desperately needs references. There are many stastical and historical claims that need to be backed up by reliable sources, instead as accepted as fact on the word of whoever added them to the article. Spylab 00:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 23:19, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Harriet Beecher Stowe

The statement "One example is Harriet Beecher Stowe, author of Uncle Tom's Cabin, who is buried in Dresden, Ontario" in the article, noting the "sizable community in Nova Scotia and Southern Ontario who trace their ancestry to freed American slaves" is completely false as Harriet Beecher Stowe is white and is buried at Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts. Donkeys4ever 20:40, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

You are right, I have removed it. Thanks for pointing out. Dina 20:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Assessment

I have assessed this as Start Class, as it contains more detail and organization than would be expected of a Stub, but requires more in-line citations and an expansion of the prose. I have assessed this as low importance as it is a highly specific topic within Canada. Cheers, CP 16:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

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"Regions with significant populations"

For now, I suggest leaving British Columbia out of this section in the infobox. BC doesn't have a large percentage of black people in it's cities like Vancouver and Victoria. I think that this section should be changed to say "predominantly Eastern Canada", since the vast majority of black people live there. What do you guys think? Blackjays1 (talk) 19:14, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

European Origins

Seems kind of irrelavant we know the whole world is mixed, unless we are saying these are mulattos it is not a relevant statement. Considering Canada is 90 percent white it is more likely that there are white people with black ancestry, than vice versa, espcially considering how much many more black men there are than women, according to this page. If blacks are marrying whites and we are the majority it only makes sense that there kids will marry white and usually someone who is one quarter black don't look all that different than us regular whites. Saying someone is 1/8 of a race is kind of irrelvant, I highly doubt anyone in Canada is pure unless they are a F.O.B. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ihba (talk • contribs) 17:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Some white Canadians who have black ancestry, don't know they are part black. Some do know, but they have denied their black roots. I agreed, the whole world is mixed. Homer33 04:22, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Origins definition

Right now there are some problems with this intro: Black Canadians or African Canadians are designations used for people of African descent who reside in Canada. The term is used by and of Canadian citizens who trace their ancestry back to people who were indigenous to Africa. The majority have relatively recent origins in the Caribbean, while some trace their lineage to the first slaves brought by British and French colonists to the mainland of North America. A minority have recent African roots.

-What exactly do we mean by african descent, most carribean people do not consider them selves anything to do with africans -Aren't all people from africa? -The part about sub-saharan africa is definitely wrong. Their are white people from zimbabwe and south africa here but they don't call themseleves black. As well Sudanese, Chadian, malian, western saharan, and other saharan people almost always consider themselves black. As well it would ignore that people from place like papua new guinea and other black looking polynesian people almost always consider themselves black and are seen so as society. even though they have nothing to do with africa -I don't really know if we can make a geographical definition of race that can be accurate, or any definition better than black people are those who look black or simply are black(which doesn't give any information really). The idea that all black people come from africa works really well on paper, but in reality when you see a black person from a middle eastern country (who got their through slavery, or migration or whatever 1000s of years ago) you still know their black. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ihba (talk • contribs) 00:47, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

1) By 'African descent' – meaning that every Black Canadian person either has recent African heritage, or their ancestors were taken by the Europeans, from Africa to North America (and the Caribbean). You claim that "most carribean people do not consider them selves anything to do with africans", but Caribbean people aren't stupid, they know that the roots of African-Caribbeans are in Africa. The aftermath of slavery created the Rastafari movement, and the Back to Africa movement (started by Marcus Garvey of Jamaica). Just because certain Caribbean people in Canada object to the title "African Canadian", doesn't mean that their roots aren't from Africa.

2) Yes, history has evidence that humans originate from Africa, but the vast majority of it's inhabitants are and were 'black people'.

3) The part about Sub-Saharan Africa is definitely RIGHT. The vast majority of Black Africans live, and have lived in this part of Africa for centuries. Most Black Canadians can trace their ancestry to this region. When blacks were captured for slavery, the Europeans definitely didn't go in the extremely hot and rural Sahara desert to look for slaves. You are right in the sense that not ALL blacks in Canada have roots in the Sub-Saharan, but history shows that Almost all Black Canadians can trace their ancestry to the Sub-Saharan.

4) Your just trying to complicate things with your last point, so I wont get into it.

You should really save those questions for the Black people and Africa articles. Blackjays1 (talk) 07:02, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Numbers

According to some studies by McGill university the amount of blacks may be seriously under represented as only 1/2 of Jamaicans and Haitians are identiifying themselves on black in censuses.

"The report is a response to one consequence of African-Canadian diversity: the fact that almost half of us do not identify ourselves as "black" on Canadian census documents. Indeed, 43 percent of African-heritage respondents to the 1991 census listed themselves as French or British, or as Barbadian, Ethiopian, Ghanaian, Haitian, Somali, Jamaican, Trinidadian / Tobagonian, etc., leading to a serious undercounting of African-heritage Canadians. Wally Boxhill, a former Statistics Canada employee, re-cast the numbers to include the above groups as Black Canadians. This means that, as of 1991, there were 504, 290 blacks in Canada, not 366,625 as formerly counted."(http://news-archive.mcgill.ca/w97/black.htm)

This would mean that there are actually 1.38 or 38% more black Canadians than the stats actually show —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ihba (talk • contribs) 01:13, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

It's too hard to sort that out, and it would take way too long. I can only suggest that we do our census like the U.S. census. In the U.S., if you are black, you only have the choice of selecting "African American" and "Hispanic or Latino". Blackjays1 (talk) 07:19, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd note that the statistic you're citing here is from a study conducted on the 1991 census. There have been three censuses since then, and the number of Black Canadians in all of those is much closer to Boxhill's revised estimate than to the 1991 data. Which means things have improved since Clarke's article (which is also ten years old now). I've included this source in the article, although it had to be cast in a somewhat different context than what it would seem here. Bearcat (talk) 17:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Sources to investigate?

I came across references to these two books, which sound interesting. If anyone has access to them, perhaps you could add info from them directly to the article.

• From Slavery to the Ghetto the Story of the Negro in the Maritimes, Wedderburn, H.A.J., pg. 1
• Beneath the Clouds of the Promised Land-The Survival of Nova Scotia's Blacks Vol. 1 1600 -1800, Pachai Bridglal pgs. 33

BrainyBabe (talk) 09:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

This is a ficionalised account, and as such cannot be included directed, but the notes to it suggest further sources. http://www.shunpiking.com/bhs/longwalk.htm BrainyBabe (talk) 10:43, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Debate - Politically incorrect term?

This may sound like I'm going crazy, but I (Harold26) find it is politically incorrect to call someone (or a group of people) a "Black Canadian" because it could be found as racism. It's not that it is offensive, it just doesn't seem right at all to call them that. Of course, that's my opinion, and I'm not asking for the page to be moved. If you have any questions, please contact me on my talk page. Harold26 (c) 06:03, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

It's certainly a problematic term, no question. But right now there isn't actually an alternative to it: Caribbean-Canadians, as a rule, don't care to be identified or referred to as "African-Canadian". So while it is always preferable to identify individual people as specifically as possible (i.e. Jamaican-Canadian, Trinidadian-Canadian, Nigerian-Canadian, etc.), unfortunately "Black Canadian" is still the standard term in Canada for the community as a whole when it's necessary to refer to them collectively. Bearcat (talk) 07:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll agree with Bearcat, although Black Canadian may be insulting to some, I don't think it should change unless a suitable alternative can be found.Ghyslyn (talk) 23:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

"Candian" is also a derogatory term used to describe African-Americans. http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_burman/2008/01/is_canadian_a_racist_slur.html

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Pictures

I added Donovan Bailey, Jarome Iginla and Marlene Jennings to the infobox as I thought more examples might be nice. I realize I didn't consult anyone, so if anyone has a problem with it, let me know. I realize Marlene Jennings might not be too notable but she had a picture, and I'm not great with adding new pictures to wikipedia. Anyways, I don't want it to appear partisan so if anyone can get some other pictures up there it would be great. Basser g (talk) 19:34, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

The only African representative is Jarome Iginla and the overwhelming majority of the pictures are of Caribbean Canadians. To highlight the diversity of the Black Canadian identity, there should be a few Canadians of recent African immigrant descent like Daniel Igali or The Weeknd for example. Asphyx1 (talk) 08:18, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Inclusion of Gregory Charles

Gregory Charles, a wellknown black francophone entertainer from Montreal, might be a good addition to the infobox. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.202.228.51 (talk) 04:02, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Only if and when we have a properly-licensed photo of him to actually add (i.e. you can't just upload a copyrighted photo from his press kit). We don't, at present. Bearcat (talk) 04:48, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Removal of Category:Ethnic groups in Canada and related groups

I remove the category, because it is not an ethnic group. If it were an ethnic group, the very least would be to speak the same language, but some speak Spanish, other speak English, other speak French or creole, or Portuguese.

I have strong doubts about the contents of the "related groups" sections in the infobox and in the article text : why should Black Canadians be more related to other Africa-related non-Canadian groups, like African-Americans, than to other non-Black Canadians ? Isn't Michaelle Jean married to a French man. Doesn't marriage count as a "relation" ? Doesn't that create a relation between her group and her husband's ?

For that reason, I add Template:citation needed for each mentioned so-called "related group".

Teofilo talk 01:49, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Because when it comes to race and ethnicity, "related" is a matter of shared ancestry, not of "these two groups happen to occupy the same country now" or of "some individual members of this group happen to be married to individual members of that group". Black Canadians are ethnically or racially related to African Americans by virtue of having the same ancestors; their relationships with white Canadians or Asian Canadians or First Nations, while obviously not irrelevant to their cultural context, aren't primarily racial or ethnic in nature. Bearcat (talk) 05:30, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Right to vote

March 24#Events says that Black Canadians were given the right to vote in 1837. This milestone event should be mentioned in the article or even have its own section. I don't know anything about the subject so I wouldn't know where to start. Thanks. – ukexpat (talk) 13:20, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Refugees

This article is great, but mostly focuses on Ontario and NS (which makes sense), where I am most African-Canadians are relatively recent refugees from Sudan, Somalia, Burundi, Rwanda, DRC. I think there are several places in Western Canada where this is the case. Here people I know identify themselves just by country (ie Rwandan or Rwandan-Canadian).

There is also a newspaper here which is Afro-Carribean (Vancouver) and very flexible re definitions and inclusion. Maybe we need more regional information - I know Montreal gets a lot more people from Haiti and francophone Africa, and, as well all know migration patterns are unique in each part of the country.

Also - I know this is a can of worms, but BC also has a lot of white South Africans - the majority of doctors in the north are South African, mostly Afrikaners. Not sure where, or how this belongs, but perhaps somewhere.

Also - there's some data noting that people in Canada are more likely to identify as mixed than people in the US. This may be worth identifying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.180.218.83 (talk) 22:29, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Black African descent

It is important to be specific about the race and culture of the people described in this article. Not everyone living in Africa is Black; many South Africans are White or East Indian, and over 90% of Egyptians are Arabs. The point is, the term Black Canadian doesn't apply to every African immigrant in Canada. Blackjays1 (talk) 07:19, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Moxy (talk) 07:36, 9 February 2011 (UTC)Agree this has been a problem in many of this related articles. The editor has taking a side in the never-ending discussion of who's really an African and simply removing material and links in and to Black articles. We have tried to talk to him but he will not respond on his talk page. He did say above - what is posted in small text below : However hes misinterpreting the chart ..as its clear that not all Africans are black and is Y the data is divided up.

:::I think within the context of this article it's pretty clear we are referring to black Africans origin and refer to any people of African descent. Even census canada is using the common use of the term during the recensement. http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/tbt/Rp-eng.cfm?A=R&APATH=3&D1=0&D2=0&D3=0&D4=0&D5=0&D6=0&DETAIL=0&DIM=0&FL=A&FREE=0&GC=01&GID=837928&GK=1&GRP=1&LANG=E&O=D&PID=92333&PRID=0&PTYPE=88971%2C97154&S=0&SHOWALL=0&SUB=0&TABID=1&THEME=80&Temporal=2006&VID=0&VNAMEE=&VNAMEF= Analyzer99 (talk) 12:56, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll give other few examples: http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=37442&Cr=slave&Cr1= http://www.canadaviews.ca/2011/01/24/february-proclaimed-african-heritage-month-in-nova-scotia/ Analyzer99 (talk) 13:50, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I see. Well, if worse comes to worse and this guy decides to remove it everyday, we should request protection on this page. Blackjays1 (talk) 07:52, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I will continue to add to my argumentation to note the definition used by the "African Diaspora Association of Canada": To provide a forum for Canadians of African descent to build a network of action-oriented individuals and groups in support of our communities in Africa, the Caribbean and Canada.. Available here: http://www.africancanadiandiaspora.org/eng/aboutus.aspx Clearly it use the expression "African descent". It is also the term used in earlier version of this article before it was modified. Analyzer99 (talk) 21:45, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

This article is about "Blacks" in general ...The article deals with all Black groups not just "African Diasporas" though they may all be African- The reason the term Black people is used is because we are talking about "ALL" the black ethnic groups that come from all over the world. We are not talking about Egyptians or Berber people etc... We are just talking about Blacks....that are further broken down into ethnic groups like Black Nova Scotians · Canadians of Barbadian origin · Cape Verdean Canadian · Canadians of Guyanese descent · Canadians of Haitian ancestry · Jamaican Canadian · Nigerian Canadians · Trinidadian and Tobagonian Canadians and so on. The main reason for this is because most Black people in Canada "Self identify" themselves by place of origin/country and/or cultural back ground and not the African continent its self. In fact we should remove the work "African" altogether and simply show the link as is Black people and not "Black African". Blacks in Canada not just Africans - Statistics Canada - 2011 Moxy (talk) 22:38, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Analyzer, I don't think anyone is denying the fact that Black people in Canada are of African descent. The problem is, an African immigrant (or child of an immigrant) in Canada can say "Wait, I'm from Africa, but I'm not Black. Does this make me an African Canadian or Black Canadian?" Of course, the answer is no. The fact that the entire human race originated in Africa is further reason for the specification of "Black African". Blackjays1 (talk) 03:12, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I want to bring forward my point again which is not about your personal quibbles about semantics, but about sourced definition and terms used by about all African diaspora associations in the worlds in their definition for example, including Canadian one. It's not the place of wikipedia to change definition. Encyclopedic content must be verifiable. That's why I bring forward, for example, the definition and terminology used by the African diaspora association of Canada: http://www.africancanadiandiaspora.org/eng/aboutus.aspx Analyzer99 (talk) 11:16, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Data for ethnic origin was collected by self-declaration, labels may not necessarily describe the true (genetic) ancestry of respondents. Many respondents also acknowledged multiple ancestries, thus data reflects both single and multiple responses and may exceed the total population count. Source: "Ethnocultural Portrait of Canada - Data table". Statistics Canada. Retrieved 2011-01-16. Additional data: "2006 Census release topics". Statistics Canada. Retrieved 2011-01-16.. You have been told by many editors that is not correct pls read what has been shown to you if this is done again i think i will report it as Wikipedia:Disruptive editing. I will let the next editor revert the next time.Moxy (talk) 11:28, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Lets keep discussion about sourced definition and terminology. I don't see anything in your link related to the current discussion. And I don't understand why you (beyond unsourced personal quibbles about semantics) want to go against sourced definition used by organism such as the African Diapora association of Canada. I want to remind people again that the WP:V is a core principle of Wikipedia. Articles are not an opinion piece about personal quibbles. http://www.africancanadiandiaspora.org/eng/aboutus.aspx Analyzer99 (talk) 11:47, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Could you pls readup on the topic. pls just do some investigation.Moxy (talk) 12:10, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

In the links provided its say --> Black 61,430 32,510 28,910

• Hendrick, George; Hendrick, Willene (2010), Black refugees in Canada: accounts of escape during the era of slavery, McFarland & Co, ISBN 9780786447336
• Mathieu, Sarah-Jane (2010), North of the Color Line: Migration and Black Resistance in Canada, 1870-1955, University of North Carolina Press, ISBN 9780807834299
• Winks, Robin W (1997), The Blacks in Canada: a history, McGill-Queen's University Press, ISBN 077351631X
• Walcott, Rinaldo (2003), Black like who?: writing Black Canada, Insomniac Press, ISBN 1894663403
• Williams, Dawn P (2006), Who's who in Black Canada two, Volume 2, D.P. Williams, ISBN 0973138424

None of those books are related to the current discussion about the definition and terminology used. In fact, most books about the African diaspora around the world, as well as news articles and African diaspora association and organism in Canada used the term "African descent" when giving a definition about the diaspora. Just the fact that your unsourced wikipedia modification says "Black African" but instead point to a wiki page called "Black people" shows that there's something wrong with it and that it is rarely used. But most importantly all sources related to defining the words and proper terminology use "African descent". For example, beyond unsourced personal quibbles about semantics, why go against the African diaspora association of Canada (and those around the world)? http://www.africancanadiandiaspora.org/eng/aboutus.aspx You can't change definition of words because you don't like it personally. At least not on Wikipedia. Analyzer99 (talk) 12:34, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

What ??? I just dont understand Y you wont look at anything we show you. This article is about "Black Canadians" not all Africans, but just the blacks including those that dont identify with Africa at all. For some odd reason you think that the "African diaspora association" has a monopoly on the term. Dont you think its odd all this scholars use the term. Pls just read one of the books provided. Questions do you believe all Africans are black? and or that all Africans are considered "African diaspora" (including Egyptians etc..) Pls see Canadians for the terms used by the population and Statistics Canada that seris of articles is based on {{People of Canada}}. Moxy (talk) 13:00, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

About every sources about black Canadian and the African diaspora use the same terminology. For example for the United Nation 2011 is the International Year for People of African Descent. Even a UN resolution use the term: http://www.un.org/french/documents/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/64/169&TYPE=&referer=http://www.un.org/fr/events/observances/humanrights&Lang=E. Here's the same definition and terminology used in Canadian government sites and publications: http://www.multiculturalcanada.ca/Encyclopedia/A-Z/a16 Canadians of African descent include people brought to this country as slaves in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, former American slaves who arrived here between the American Revolution and the Civil War, free American migrants, Caribbean Peoples, and those who have come directly from Africa. Taken from the Encyclopedia of Canadian people: http://books.google.ca/books?id=dbUuX0mnvQMC&lpg=PP1&dq=Encyclopedia%20of%20Canada%27s%20Peoples&pg=PA139#v=onepage&q&f=false Even your own book you provided as link: http://books.google.ca/books?id=Eeh4L1CulqYC&lpg=PA294&dq=Canada%27s%20RMC&pg=PP1#v=snippet&q=African&f=false I provided many other sources of definition and terminology above. Analyzer99 (talk) 16:59, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Its clear you only see what you wish. All you want to do is eliminate a word you dont like - even though its clear that this is a term used for self identity in Canada-- If you were to look at the refs i provided you would see --> multiculturalcanada.ca = Quote" By the end of the fifteenth century white Slavic peoples were being replaced by black Africans as slave labourers in the Mediterranean" -Encyclopedia of Canada's Peoples = [1].

The majority of Black Canadians are Caribbean Canadians

In the introduction it is mentioned that the majority of Black Canadians are Caribbean Canadians. While I don't mind the mention, but I don't think it's true anymore due to "recent" immigration from Africa (adding up to the previous historical one). My only source about this not being true anymore is: http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/tbt/Rp-eng.cfm?A=R&APATH=3&D1=0&D2=0&D3=0&D4=0&D5=0&D6=0&DETAIL=0&DIM=0&FL=A&FREE=0&GC=01&GID=837928&GK=1&GRP=1&LANG=E&O=D&PID=92333&PRID=0&PTYPE=88971%2C97154&S=0&SHOWALL=0&SUB=0&TABID=1&THEME=80&Temporal=2006&VID=0&VNAMEE=&VNAMEF= I propose to change the sentence to "A large proportion of Black Canadians are Caribbean Canadians" and to remove "A minority of the population are of recent African origin". Since it's not true anymore and to be on a safe side. I have only one source to this but since it's statistic Canada it seems to be a valid one. I don't mind it one way or another, but I think it's better if the article reflect the true situation of today. Analyzer99 (talk) 13:21, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

It's still true. The vast majority of blacks in Canada are of West Indian descent. The problem with that Statistics Canada reference is that it only reports responses, meaning that the reported populations for each ethnic group are actually much greater. During that census, many blacks (Jamaicans, Haitians, Trinidadians, etc.) likely listed their ethnicity as "Canadian", which about 33% of all Canadians did on the census form. As well, many blacks listed their ethnicity as "West Indian", "Caribbean", "African", or "Black" which is further proof that these are only responses, and the population figures are not entirely accurate. This reference [2], which is in the article, shows that the majority of blacks in Canada have West Indian descent. Blackjays1 (talk) 04:20, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

the Word black

I see that we have this problem again - that is the word black has been removed and unlinked in the lead. I take it this is due to the fact that someone believes the word is a slur in some sort of way? Because as on now the refs don't match the statement. I will post this link here Stats can so that all can see the wording used in Canada...Will revert after someone else see this.Moxy (talk) 14:25, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

What high office was Michaëlle Jean the first visible minority to hold?

The intro text says "Many of the first visible minorities to hold high public offices have been Black, including Michaëlle Jean..." What office was Michaëlle Jean the first visible minority to hold? She is not the first visible minority to hold the position of Canadian Governor General; her direct predecessor, Adrienne Clarkson, is Chinese-Canadian. 71.7.236.19 (talk) 04:25, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

It's not implying that she was the first vizmin GG. It's implying that she was one of the first. Bearcat (talk) 06:36, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Black Canadians?

Could this article be rewritten or deleted? According to Category:Black Canadian people, the label includes people of African descent, West Indies descent and African-Americans. The only commonality is a distant shared ancestry and a skin color. There isn't any similar racial grouping in Category:Canadian people by ethnic or national origin for other groups. It is worth having separate articles for each ethnic heritage or, at least, have subsections within this article.

It's a catch-all category based on race alone and it should ultimately be eliminated in favor of articles based on ethnic heritage. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:32, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

As long as the Canadian government (specifically Statistics Canada) continues to recognize "Black" as a visible minority group, then the answer is no. While it's true that the Black Canadian sub-groups have a distant shared ancestry, I don't necessarily view it that way, as a Canadian of West Indian descent. Whenever I meet other Black people in Canada, I don't suddenly wonder if they're of West Indian descent, African descent, or African American descent; I simply view them as a fellow Black Canadian and all of that other stuff is secondary. If you want this page deleted or rewritten, don't forget to do the same for the European Canadian and South Asian Canadian articles/categories, which are both in the category you made mention of. Blackjays1 (talk) 19:44, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

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Visible minority group, relative size question

Hi, while the statement "Black Canadians form the third-largest visible minority group in Canada, after South Asian and Chinese Canadians." is true by the definition of visible minority, since visible minority is commonly considered synonymous with non-Caucasian, should it be clarified that if aboriginal peoples are included, Black Canadians are in fact fourth-largest? naturalnumber (talk) 04:39, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

The definition is the definition. I don't see the need to further complicate things with a hypothetical statement. Blackjays1 (talk) 03:59, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

All I meant was maybe a clarification of the definition in the sentence, or even just including a link to the visible minority article for the sake of clarity.naturalnumber (talk) 01:59, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

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Slavery

The beginning of the History section asserts:

one common element that unites all of these groups is that they are in Canada because they or their ancestors actively chose of their own free will to settle there

However, the subsection on First Black People in Canada refers to over 1,000 slaves brought by French before 1760. In addition, the subsection on African Americans during the American Revolution states:

Many White American Loyalists brought their African-American slaves with them, numbering approximately 2,500 individuals.

Questions: 1. When were those slaves freed? The statement that slaves were brought to Canada by French and British whites before 1800 contradicts the earlier assertion that free will applies to "all of these groups". 2. Does 2,500 refer to the slaves, the loyalists, or combined total?

I suggest that the introductory paragraph of the History section be rewritten to summarize more accurately. Martindo (talk) 10:27, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Hedy Fry's Inclusion

Hedy Fry is not a Black Canadian. Not everyone from Trinidad is black, and Hedy has made it clear that her ethnic origin is not black at all... something that you can even find in the first few sentences of her Wikipedia page: https://twitter.com/hedyfry/status/55464839086227456

This isn't meant to undermine her accomplishments, but she should not have a place on this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.148.59.125 (talk) 20:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Jean Alfred

Jean Alfred was a teacher and a hardline member of the Parti Québécois. Born in Ouanaminthe, Haïti, he was elected to the Assemblée nationale du Québec in 1976. I feel this should be mentionned somewhere ; he was the first black person to be elected in Québec history and was very appreciated. Information about him is unsurprisingly scarce in english, but here he is quite known as "the father of the Gatineau hospital". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:56B:DE4D:C800:F847:1216:4CD1:759D (talk) 01:54, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

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An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Kenyan Canadians and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 February 9#Kenyan Canadians until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 16:24, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

"Tanzanian Canadians" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Tanzanian Canadians and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 February 9#Tanzanian Canadians until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 16:25, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

"Burundian Canadians" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Burundian Canadians and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 February 9#Burundian Canadians until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 16:25, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Why is it problematic to call Caribbean-Canadians, Carribbean-Canadians?

I don't think them calling themselves Caribbean-Canadian has anything to do with race, but simply their Caribbean heritage which is multi-racial. @Vaselineeeeeeee Freee Contributor (talk) 20:17, 8 March 2024 (UTC)