Talk:Big Brother (Israeli TV series) season 1

Neaama or Naama?

Edenc1 (talk) 22:58, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

It's Naama without the e
- HonorTheKing (talk) 10:35, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Participants

Is it really necessary to have a section for each participant? -- Nudve (talk) 10:32, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The Final

The final should be in week 15, not 16. Edenc1 • Talk 16:07, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Celebrity Big Brother 1 (U.S.) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:20, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 20 June 2018

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not moved. Consensus is clearly against the proposed move. bd2412 T 02:37, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

• HaAh HaGadol 1 → HaAch HaGadol 1
• HaAh HaGadol 2 → HaAch HaGadol 2
• HaAh HaGadol 3 → HaAch HaGadol 3
• HaAh HaGadol 4 → HaAch HaGadol 4
• HaAh HaGadol 5 → HaAch HaGadol 5
• HaAh HaGadol 6 → HaAch HaGadol 6
• HaAh HaGadol 7 → HaAch HaGadol 7
• HaAh HaGadol 8 → HaAch HaGadol 8
• HaAh HaGadol 9 → HaAch HaGadol 9
• HaAh HaGadol VIP 1 → HaAch HaGadol VIP 1
• HaAh HaGadol VIP 2 → HaAch HaGadol VIP 2

– the english transliteration of the word אח is Ach with the c as seen on these pages Yevamot where you see אח is transliterated as ach or here List of Hebrew abbreviations where ח is a ch there aren't really any sources that transliterate האח הגדול except for imdb but transliterating Hebrew the ח is a ch Do not sign this. עם ישראל חי (talk) 17:53, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

I support this move if that is the correct way the articles should be titled based on the transliteration. I don't know Hebrew myself but would feel more comfortable if someone else chimes in. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 22:40, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Oppose While searching for the correct translation, I couldn't even find one single English source using the translated Hebrew name. However, what עם ישראל חי says is correct and even IMDB has the suggested spelling as well. Regardless, I oppose the suggested move. Looking at the show's former official website, the name is always Big Brother season X. So this should follow the suggested moves other shows have - HaAch HaGadol (season x). In addition, the show has moved a network (from Keshet to Reshet) this season and they are calling this season 1. Unless we are going to decide on the season numbering, we should probably use what the show uses. In this case, the name should be - HaAch HaGadol (Keshet season 1) and HaAch HaGadol (Reshet season 1). --Gonnym (talk) 00:11, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

@Gonnym: The numbering of the seasons isn't being discussed at the moment. It was suggested by another editor that עם ישראל חי open another, wider RM to figure out the correct spelling we should use for this series. Once that is complete then another RM will be opened to align the numbering of the articles in accordance with reliable sources and the guidelines of WP:NCTV. Also worth noting just because Reshet calls the overall 9th season their season 1 doesn't mean we need to use disambig tags like (Reshet season 1). A previous move request in regards to American Idol (season 16) already established that in this case constancy overrides the broadcaster's name. So once the spelling of the articles is finalized/fixed a move request will open to uses the (season x) disambig tag. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 00:41, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

I don't really see a point in doing this as a move-in-steps progress. The end result is not the correct name in any way. I'm not familiar with the American Idol season 16 situation. I just did a search for a season 9 of Big Brother Israel (in Hebrew) and found zero mentions. I don't really see how continuing with the numbering is the correct usage. In this regard its more akin to a reboot. You wouldn't call The Amazing Spider-Man (2012 film), Spider-Man 4 just because it follows Spider-Man 3. This season has a new network, new hosts, new Big Brother, new stage. While it is Big Brother, its just a reboot of the franchise. --Gonnym (talk) 00:51, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose, as per Gonnym – there are too many factors to unpack here, and the current proposal doesn't deal with them all. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:16, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

there was a proposal recently to change all the big brothers i was told when i brought this change up that i should put in a separate proposal for the change when the previous proposal was closed this is a proposal to fix a problem unique to these pages the other problems are with all the big brother pages which the proposal ended with no consensus to change just because one request fails doesn't mean we can't fix the other problems with the page separately if you want to then change it you can put in a proposal after this one ends עם ישראל חי (talk) 14:43, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

• • Following on your response to me over at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (television)#Non-English television names, I can't find any English sources using the translated name, I however can find them using "Big Brother" - [1], [2], [3], [4]. It would seem then that the name would instead be Big Brother (Israel). Gonnym (talk) 13:27, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:HEBREW; ח is transliterated as "h" on Wikipedia. No problem with using "Big Brother (Israeli TV series)" or something similar though. Number 57 21:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Different proposal

If this RM fails, I'd like to propose changing the name to one that actually follows WP:NCTV and WP:V.

• HaAh HaGadol changed to Big Brother (Israeli TV series) - the Hebrew name is not used by English RS, instead "Big Brother" is used, as can be seen here: [5], [6], [7], [8], [9].

The Big Brother show in Israel was broadcast on one network (Keshet) and ran for 8 seasons before switching to another (Reshet). While we could continue with the season count, I'd propose we don't based on the following facts: The network move changed most (if not all) of the distinguishing elements of the show - the network, the hosts, the voice of big brother, the house itself, the website and reset the season numbering. The new season is not called the 9th season, but instead called season 1.[10]. This makes the show more of a reboot then a continuation (akin to The Amazing Spider-Man (2012 film)). Now while I personally think the two series should be disambiguation by television network, i.e Big Brother (Keshet season x) and Big Brother (Reshet season x), per the NC it can't: Disambiguation using television network identification is deprecated [...]. The only example given was for TV articles, which used the year of release or program debut.

• Season articles changed to Big Brother VIP (Israeli season x), Big Brother (2008 Israeli season x) and Big Brother (2018 Israeli season x) - as can be seen here: Keshet's season numbering and Reshet's season numbering.

Redirects should be created from the current naming, the proposed "HaAch HaGadol" naming (as that is the correct translation) and with the broadcast naming (per NCTV). Gonnym (talk) 20:19, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

@Gonnym: The thing is here the core format didn't change and the fact that when it moved to Reshet it got a new House or the production staff was changed really wasn't major. With this format its normal for the House to be revamped, get rebuilt anew or move to a new location. The thing is the company that hold the right to the Big Brother format globally purchased a stake in Reshet in 2013 after buying the local production company Kuperman which had an existing deal with Keshet at the time.[11] This is just a popular format moving to a network that the parent company has a stake in.[12] To me this is similar to American Idol where ABC considers the overall season 16 their season 1. When moving the article the numbering should continue with the lead saying something like The overall ninth season of the Israeli version of Big Brother premiered on 5 May 2018, on Reshet. It is the show's first season to air on Reshet. If we are going to consider this a reboot and start the numbering anew because it switched broadcasters then the same needs to be done with American Idol in my opinion. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 16:19, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

The core of the format won't change, as that's the format (if the format changed, it wouldn't be Big Brother and they wouldn't have to pay Endemol to use it). However, that doesn't mean it's not a new version of it. Taking my previous example, The Amazing Spider-Man (2012 film) was a reboot of the Spider-Man film franchise. The core "format" of that film didn't change - Spider-Man is a young super hero based on a comic book character. A reboot usually is by the same production company (or distributor in films) as they are the ones holding the rights so that doesn't really make a difference either. The Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien was never treated as a continuation of Late Night with Conan O'Brien even though its on the same channel, by the same production company and same host (and presumably staff) nor was Conan (talk show) treated as a continuation of the former. You might say The Tonight Show was an established show with a previous host, and you'd be right, however Conan's version was never treated as a continuation of The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. So with this example you have 2 types - a show that changed hosts and a show that changed its name and time slot. Both are treated as new versions independent of their history. It would seem that for game shows, its easier just to throw them in together, but that doesn't mean they are a continuation. I'm not american and don't follow Idol, but if that show has a different channel, host, judges (though this also changed per season, didn't it?) and maybe even format and the production and channel call it season 1, then in my opinion that too should be treated as such. Back to this show, Big Brother on Reshet is the same Big Brother format, but it has almost nothing in common with the previous production - different channel, hosts, big brother voice, house (the previous house was totally demolished, not just redesigned), website and they themselves call it season 1. --Gonnym (talk) 17:54, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

References

References