Talk:Bee's knees

Requested move 11 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is consensus to delete the disambiguation page, move the cocktail page to the main title, and add a hatnote to Wiktionary. Double redirects to the disambiguation page will be fixed automatically. This close reflects the policy Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary. (closed by non-admin page mover) 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 17:29, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

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Bee's Knees (cocktail) → Bee's Knees – Proposal: move Bee's Knees (cocktail) to Bee's Knees, redirect Bee's knees and all its redirects to Bee's Knees, and link to the Wiktionary entry in a hatnote using {{See Wiktionary}}.

The cocktail article is the only one actually named anything similar to "bee's knees", while Pollen basket and Johnny Gargano don't even include the phrase and the ITC typeface is non-notable. Nardog (talk) 11:13, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support. As I had mentioned in a previous RM at Talk:Bee's knees, the disambiguation page is unnecessary. 162 etc. (talk) 17:14, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
• There is also The Bees Knees (song). A865 (talk) 23:56, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

  It's a redirect, so a hatnote will do (that is, if it's necessary at all; the very fact it isn't listed on the DAB page suggests it may not be). Nardog (talk) 09:09, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support Per WP:NOTDICTIONARY. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:47, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose, especially the proposals to redirect Bee's knees to the cocktail. The idiom is the primary topic. Just because a primary topic doesn't have a Wikipedia page doesn't make something else with a page the primary topic. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 17:14, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

  Striked as I realized that the idiom has a definite article. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 17:18, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 30 November 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 20:28, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

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Bee's Knees → Bee's knees – I would do this as a WP:BOLD move, but the current title is the result of a recent RM (closed 18 June 2022). The proposal is for lowercase for this cocktail's name per recent discussions at Talk:Donkey punch (cocktail), Talk:Long Island iced tea, Talk:Black and tan, Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Capitalise cocktail names?, Talk:Black velvet (cocktail), and Talk:List of cocktails. Linguistically speaking, this is not a proper name, and it is also not a trademark name. There is, of course, a more general meaning of "the bee's knees", but the previous recent RM discussion reached a consensus that it was not necessary to consider that per WP:NOTDICTIONARY. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:33, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

• Support lowercase k in knees, per MOS and WP:CONSISTENCY with other cocktail names. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 01:41, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
• Question: I see the discussion on the talk page, but is it actually officially in our Manual of Style that we do not capitalize cocktail names? Rreagan007 (talk) 02:57, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Not specifically, as far as I know, or we probably wouldn't have needed all those other previous discussions that I referenced. But like I said, these are not proper names and are not trademark names, and I again refer to that long list of other recent RMs (some of which involved multiple article titles) and the WP:MOSCAPS talk page discussion. This is also consistent with not capping dance names, like Viennese waltz, and with not capping non-trademarked game names, like Snakes and ladders. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:03, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Right, I think this is a very effective argument. When we don't have a specific consensus (cocktail names), we should look to as close as possible analogous topics. Like dances, or classic board games, or other such things which are not branded or proper nouns, but are individual nouns. Our MOSCAPS tells us pretty explicitly not to capitalize things like that, and consensus has gone that way. I'm honestly having a hard time finding analogous things which are usually in title (proper noun?) case around here...Maybe Go (the game), or chess openings like Queen's Gambit? But even those are more the exception than the rule. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 19:19, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, Go and chess openings are discussed explicitly at MOS:GAMECAPS. As mentioned at WP:NCFAUNA, "As of November 2015, the Manual of Style advises neither for nor against capitalisation of breed names," although "Where a multi-word standardized breed name is capitalised in an article title, the species name is capitalised if it is a formal part of the name: American Quarter Horse, Norwegian Forest Cat." In practice, many breed names are capitalized, like European Shorthair, German Shepherd, Basset Hound, Texas Longhorn, and Rhode Island Red. See List of dog breeds, Category:Cat breeds, Category:Cattle breeds, Category:Horse breeds, Category:Chicken breeds, etc. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:28, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support: Lower case for common nouns. SchreiberBike | ⌨  03:09, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:30, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support – Cocktails are special (to some of us), but not that special. Dicklyon (talk) 02:11, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Shwcz (talk) 12:11, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:59, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Undue singling out of recommended gin

Out of ten sites I checked, one recommended Barr Hill gin, others had different recommendations (most frequently, i.e. twice, Beefeaters but pretty much every site recommended something else like Gordon's, Hayman's, Hendrick's, Rieger's, Tanqueray, Gunpowder Irish, Silent Pool, Monkey 47, Broker's, Boodles, Bombay, Malfy, Aviation). I see no reason to sort out Barr Hill this prominently as if it were notably often recommended. --2003:C9:471D:E900:A9D1:5758:8EE1:8EAF (talk) 08:44, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I guess what makes most sense to me would be listing the supposedly original Ritz recipe which had Gordon's, or none at all. --2003:C9:471D:E900:A9D1:5758:8EE1:8EAF (talk) 08:50, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Curiously, only recently a paragraph specifically mentioning Barr Hill again was added anonymously and shortly after that the image was replaced with one featuring Barr Hill gin by a pseudonymous user with no other contributions. --2003:C9:471D:E900:A9D1:5758:8EE1:8EAF (talk) 08:59, 31 January 2024 (UTC)