Talk:Alexander Moroz
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Requested move 26 February 2018
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below and the discussion at Talk:Oleksandr Moroz. The disambiguation page has been moved to Alexander Moroz (disambiguation) for the time being; a hatnote should likely remain on this article pointing at the politican. Dekimasuよ! 07:07, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
Alexander Moroz (chess player) → Alexander Moroz – Sole subject of Wikipedia biographical entry who is known as "Alexander Moroz" in the English-speaking world. The Ukrainian statesman Oleksandr Moroz is known by the Ukrainian form of his given name. There is no need for the Alexander Moroz disambiguation page. The main title headers of the articles for both men will carry explanatory hatnotes. A concurrent move request at Talk:Oleksandr Moroz (politician)#Requested move 25 February 2018 is also aimed at removal of the parenthetical qualifier, thus enabling both subjects to have main headers without the need for disambiguation. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 04:17, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Station1 (talk) 06:05, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- Support - ambiguity can be solved with hatnotes. Not a two-entry DAB. -- Netoholic @ 08:11, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose target is a dab page and the chess player is today the third most notable. Also Alexander Moroz refers to the politician In ictu oculi (talk) 08:12, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- @Netoholic: This Is What It's Like On Board A Ship That Rescues Migrants At Sea BuzzFeed News-24 Feb 2017 “There is no middle,” said Alexander Moroz, the Aquarius's captain. "You either like this job or you don't like this job. I like this job. I like what we're doing. The feeling is that you're doing something good. You're in the right direction. You're helping. I'm always in contact with the people on board the captain of the Aquarius (NGO ship) gets more news hits than either of the other two Alexander Moroz In ictu oculi (talk) 09:17, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- The chess grandmaster had been notable for decades and appears in 6 Wikipedias. The statesman likewise has been in the news for many years and appears in 14 Wikipedias. The ship captain's name has been mentioned in the media with regard to the rescue, but he has no personal claim to notability and is unlikely to ever become the subject of a Wikipedia article, even in his native Russian Wikipedia. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 09:40, 26 February 2018 (UTC)�
- Fair enough, but I think that's in part a function of Wikipedia's editor base rather than real notability in 2017. The 1990s chessmaster is long out of the news. We have 100s of chess editors, we don't have one drowning migrant editor. None of the three is universally more notable than the others. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:50, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- With all due respect and gratitude to ship captains who rescue drowning migrants, Wikipedia biographical entries require additional criteria for survival at WP:AfD. Now, if the ship's captain was also a chess grandmaster or an internationally known political figure, he would certainly qualify. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 10:33, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- I'm afraid WP:DABMENTION says the exact opposite. Although it'd be nice to erase mention of the ship captain whose crew pulled 3,000 potential Wikipedia editors off sinking dinghies we can't remove his existence from the dab page if he's in the news. It is the chess master who isn't in either the news or (much) in books remember. Alexander Moroz (politician) is more notable. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:55, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
- In the English-speaking world, as well as upon the international scene, the Ukrainian chess master has been primarily rendered as "Alexander Moroz", not as the Ukrainian "Oleksandr" or the Russian "Aleksandr". He is the sole "Alexander Moroz" with a Wikipedia entry and, therefore, does not need a qualifier.
- The statesman, on the other hand, is notable for political activity in his native Ukraine and should be rendered in his native Ukrainian form, Oleksandr Moroz, per such entries as Oleksandr Ksenofontov, Oleksandr Ponomarov, Oleksandr Sevidov, Oleksandr Turchynov, Oleksandr Zavarov and various others. He is the sole "Oleksandr Moroz" with a Wikipedia entry and also does not need a qualifier.
- Ship captains of all nations who rescue people in distress do, indeed, deserve a WP:DABMENTION. The captain, however, is Russian and therefore his given name would be rendered as "Aleksandr". User:Aleksandr Grigoryev's addition of a parenthetical qualifier to the politician's name was aimed at fitting in a redlink for a Soviet-era Ukrainian Oleksandr Moroz (footballer) whose only Wikipedia entry appears in the Russian version and whose notability does not equal that of the politician. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 01:16, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
- One compromise aimed at keeping the dab page would be to move its main header from Alexander Moroz to the Russian form, Aleksandr Moroz, which is the ship captain's name, and add the WP:DABMENTION for the captain, the redlink for the footballer, and the two undisambiguated English Wikipedia article titles, Alexander Moroz and Oleksandr Moroz. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 01:16, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
- I'm afraid WP:DABMENTION says the exact opposite. Although it'd be nice to erase mention of the ship captain whose crew pulled 3,000 potential Wikipedia editors off sinking dinghies we can't remove his existence from the dab page if he's in the news. It is the chess master who isn't in either the news or (much) in books remember. Alexander Moroz (politician) is more notable. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:55, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
- With all due respect and gratitude to ship captains who rescue drowning migrants, Wikipedia biographical entries require additional criteria for survival at WP:AfD. Now, if the ship's captain was also a chess grandmaster or an internationally known political figure, he would certainly qualify. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 10:33, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- Fair enough, but I think that's in part a function of Wikipedia's editor base rather than real notability in 2017. The 1990s chessmaster is long out of the news. We have 100s of chess editors, we don't have one drowning migrant editor. None of the three is universally more notable than the others. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:50, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- The chess grandmaster had been notable for decades and appears in 6 Wikipedias. The statesman likewise has been in the news for many years and appears in 14 Wikipedias. The ship captain's name has been mentioned in the media with regard to the rescue, but he has no personal claim to notability and is unlikely to ever become the subject of a Wikipedia article, even in his native Russian Wikipedia. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 09:40, 26 February 2018 (UTC)�
- @Netoholic: This Is What It's Like On Board A Ship That Rescues Migrants At Sea BuzzFeed News-24 Feb 2017 “There is no middle,” said Alexander Moroz, the Aquarius's captain. "You either like this job or you don't like this job. I like this job. I like what we're doing. The feeling is that you're doing something good. You're in the right direction. You're helping. I'm always in contact with the people on board the captain of the Aquarius (NGO ship) gets more news hits than either of the other two Alexander Moroz In ictu oculi (talk) 09:17, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- Support per nom. I also agree there is no need for the dab page, but it can be moved to Alexander Moroz (disambiguation) pending an AfD. --В²C ☎ 22:44, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.