Talk:Afghan (biscuit)
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First publication of recipe
editI removed the reference [1] as it is not reliable. The Edmonds Cookbook was first published in 1907, not the 1940s. Note that the edition does not include Afghan biscuits (in fact it hardly has any biscuit recipies). The point is that no source has yet been found that demonstrates that Edmonds was the first publisher of the recipe. dramatic (talk) 20:56, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I have remove the section on origins, as it relies on uninformed speculation by individuals in forums or blog comments. I have commented (in italics) on some of the mentions:
Origins of the Name
editThe origin of the name "Afghan biscuit" is a highly debated topic among cookie connoisseurs and history buffs. Theories include
- Its similarity to the craggy, mountainous landscape of Afghanistan [1] but why Afghanistan, particularly?
- They were invented by a New Zealand woman to send to her beau posted in Afghanistan during the second or first World War[2] A slight problem in that the recipe seems older than that, plus Afghanistan was neutral territory in World War I, and NZ forces did not participate in the Third Anglo-Afghan war (1919)
- An Afghan gentleman went to New Zealand and made such an impression on baking day that a biscuit was created in his honor[3] pure speculation
- Its resemblance to an Afghan male, where the cookie base represents their skin color, the dark chocolate icing their hair, and the walnut kernel the turban[4]
My personal hypothesis (unusable as it is original research is that the name relates to the Second Anglo-Afghan war, which was prominent news during the New Zealand colonial period. (e.g. a major road in Auckland was named for the Khyber Pass)
The list given also omits the Australian camel driver theory, cited on several sites. This is one of the more plausible theories, and just because the biscuit became more common in New Zealand than Australia doesn't mean it can't have Australian origins.dramatic (talk) 20:56, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
- The Afghan biscuit has corn flakes as a key ingredient, so logically the recipe cannot have originated prior to corn flakes at least being available, and likely they were first created some time after that. The first newspaper reference to cornflakes being on sale in New Zealand is a 2 7July 1910 newspaper advertistment User:Theodore D|Theodore D]] (talk) 23:32, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
The first reference to 'afghan brown' as a colour description in New Zealand is in the late 1920s according to Papers Past. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2407:7000:840B:EB00:D816:E340:F606:752D (talk) 03:07, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
References
- ^ "Biscuit of the Week". Nice Cup of Tea and Sit Down. Retrieved 2009-02-17.
- ^ "cookie swap". Laughing Gastronome. Retrieved 2009-02-17.
- ^ "cookie swap". Laughing Gastronome. Retrieved 2009-02-17.
- ^ "TheCookieTin.com". TheCookieTin.com website. Retrieved 2009-02-17.
"racist connotations"
editIdell Stating in Wikipedia's voice that the name 'Afghan' has 'racist connotations' misleadingly presents a matter of opinion as a matter of fact, as if such supposed connotations were universally accepted or uncontroversial, when in fact many (the vast majority) of people who use the name do not think it has any "racist" connotations whatsoever. So "alleged" is completely appropriate, as it always is for something as inherently subjective as the connotations of a word. Furthermore, the sentence as a whole is gramatically incorrect. "...due to racist connotations, in particular with the Afghan wars." doesn't make sense. You cannot have a connotation with something. I don't know why you thought linking to that page would help, as it's completely irrelevant in this instance. We're talking about how people percieve a word, not an 'act of wrongoing' or whatever you think this is. Kindly restore my edits, thank you. Ya hemos pasao (talk) 04:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
- The majority of people who use the name might not think it to be racist, but you may not include your own analysis that serves to reach a conclusion not clearly stated by reliable sources. We are talking about why the biscuits were renamed. They were renamed because of what many other people think of the name, and because of the possible origin of the name in the first place. Something is 'alleged' when it’s said without proof or something of that sort. The word is not appropriate here as the racist connotation is deemed to have some basis, and the origin of the name "Afghan biscuits" might have been racist, that’s what most of the sources say, including the one cited in that very sentence. Since wrongdoing, i.e. using a racist name whether people realise it or not, does not remain undetermined, following Wikipedia's policy of verifiability, not truth, I will not forcefully make it look like a doubtful statement. Anyway, I’ll try to rephrase the paragraph to be more coherent with the sources and fix any errors. Idell (talk) 06:01, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
- I would like to see a reliable source for the claim that "They were renamed because of what many other people think of the name". Many being the operative word I would like to see a source on. 122.58.217.133 (talk) 13:24, 29 April 2022 (UTC)