Help talk:Introduction to the Manual of Style/1

possible images for the intro

"Ministry of Works" says it all! You wonder whether ten words could be six: which four could be removed to make the sign more direct and the font-size bigger?

Warning.Visitors must take Maximum Care to Avoid Accidents James123456james (talk) 15:04, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

fix up

Just saw a request at the help desk wondering why no examples of how to link, how to add image or how to make refs etc.... I will try and clean this latter this week.--Moxy (talk) 12:58, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

@Moxy: I've also been thinking about the possibility of adding in a section bellow each page with an example / exercise for each of these pages, a bit like a very short version of Tony1's exercises. See an example mockup here. The details of how to implement the stylistic recommendations should probably be kept in the (e.g. linking) to avoid repetition. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)^talk 14:54, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

About state 2 in Nepal bara kalaiya is not included Anilsahil88 (talk) 01:59, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

The "for more information" links

@Jonesey95: re this edit, I wonder if there might be a better way to provide links to the FMI pages than just adding them as another sentence? I'm not sure exactly what would be best, though. Thanks for going through all these pages! {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:49, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

You could also introduce each excerpt with a link to the MOS section, like this:

MOS:RECENTLY: Avoid phrases that will go out of date with time (e.g. recently).

I don't know if that's better. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:23, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, hmm, I'll mull on it for a bit. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:27, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: I ended up borrowing from the shortcut box format to create a "further info" box. Required creating a new module, but appears to work. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:34, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Wait, I just noticed the redirects don't fully go through; asking for help with that here. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:01, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

The shortcut template appears to be displaying the number of shortcuts in each box directly under the section header (to the left of each box). – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:58, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: Yeah, I noticed that, too. Something about this edit (which fixed the redirect issue) caused it. If it's a simple fix, go for it, but otherwise I'm okay leaving it for a few days; it's only minimally disruptive and it'll presumably be resolved when Pppery merges the templates (assuming this closes successfully). {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 02:05, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

 Fixed Sorry, my bad, I fell for a bizarre quirk in the way modules are implemented. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:12, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Nicely done. It's much better than the way I did it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:38, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Comma Suggestion

"Herbal teas are not made from the leaves of the tea plant, Camellia sinensis. Therefore, they are not technically teas, they are tisanes."

I know that the errors are there on purpose, but shouldn't the comma in the first sentence be removed? The solution addresses only the error in the second sentence.

This is about the Manual of Style quiz.—Fezzy1347 (talk) 23:05, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Fezzy1347, thanks for checking out the quiz! I think the comma in the first sentence is correct, since Camellia sinensis is the tea plant, whereas writing Herbal teas are not made from the leaves of the tea plant Camellia sinensis would imply that Camellia sinensis is only one of a number of possible tea plants. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:52, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Yeah I think since I'm new here I agree😊 Amarata Raj (talk) 14:37, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Image

I find the image size of the example article far too small to be functional. Can it somehow be enlarged? Tony (talk) 08:13, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree completely. I came to this page to say exactly the same thing, but you beat me to it. Unfortunately, I see it's a year later, and nobody fixed the issue, or even bothered to respond to your request to–at the very least–say "it can't be done." Not only that, any newcomers trying to bring up this very same issue cannot do so, because this talk page is semi-protected. Not a great start for people new to Wikipedia to be shown a basically useless image when they click on it, and then can't suggest an improvement here. I'd make a replacement screenshot myself, but the resolution on this aging laptop I'm using is unlikely to produce a usable image. Maybe a Wikipedian with a nice monitor, especially one that can tilt in portrait mode, could take a representative screenshot of an article, and replace (overlay) the existing way-too-small image? If so, please include all the standardized sections in whatever article is used for the screenshot, including the less-frequently used "Further Reading" section; I find it hard to remember exactly where it's supposed to go, and the example image left it out, I think (squinting). ~ Itsfullofstars (talk) 16:47, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

@Tony1 and @Itsfullofstars, the file on Commons was called File:Wikipedia layout sample medium.png, and although it didn't have a link to any large version, typing in File:Wikipedia layout sample large.png led to a large version (yay!), which also looks to have more modern formatting, so I've switched to that.

Regarding the protection, there's a link at the top to an unprotected feedback form. It's not ideal, but the protection here is unfortunately necessary to prevent a flood of spammy test edits. If it wasn't protected, myself and probably others wouldn't be willing to keep watching it, and there'd be no one to respond to posts. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 17:42, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response. I was adding an addendum when I ran into an edit conflict. I'm going to include what I added, even though it's after-the-fact now, just to apologize for my rather abrupt tone...

Update (sheepishly): I used a feedback link near the top of this page to leave a message elsewhere regarding the existing image, and added more requests to better explain the standardized sections, and to include a link to MOS:Layout. I simply didn't notice the feedback option near the top of the page; reading too fast, I guess. My issue about newcomers not being able to edit this page is moot, since there's another way for them to provide feedback. My apologies to those who have created and maintained the tutorials for my coming here with guns a-blazing. They thought this all through, and I was in too much of a hurry to notice. Other than than the Sections page, there's nothing else to criticize. Now, allow me to slowly back out of the room, hat in hand, bowing repeatedly as I go, mumbling low apologies. – Itsfullofstars (talk) 17:59, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

No need to apologize! I'm glad you came here and made the suggestion—the tutorial is better now for it! I've added a link to MOS:LAYOUT as well, which is definitely an improvement. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 20:31, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Vector 2022

Now that Vector 2022 is the default, the contents is at the side; part 2 no longer makes sense. סשס Grimmchild. He/him, probably 10:56, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Standard Sections

A brief introduction to the main standard sections relevant to many articles would be helpful.

I am particularly interested in introducing a standard ‘Lay Summary’ section. I believe this could be valuable to help non specialists get a handle on the subject. Also very helpful for inspiring briefer articles for non specialists.

Wikipedia has often been accused of bias. The bias I believe needs most attention is it is easy for specialist articles to ignore wider audiences, especially those less educated on particular subjects.

I suggest Simple English Wikipedias could be a significant beneficiary of such standardised sections and encourage those articles to cross reference to the specialist articles that they used.

A lay summary, perhaps with a note on who a lay person is assumed to be could help.

I have been inspired by medical articles in major magazines having lay summaries.

I don’t know a good way to raise this issue without getting very involved in Wikipedia and all the time and energy that involves, along with how that impacts my personal life. CuriousMarkE (talk) 05:41, 9 July 2024 (UTC)