Talk:Samuel Krimm

Declaration of COI

Hi folks, Wikipedia newbie here. I'm creating a draft page for my father, an award-winning biophysicist (APS, Humboldt), professor emeritus at University of Michigan.

I'm also working through the learning curve as to formatting and policies/guidelines. I welcome comments on anything I might be getting wrong, suggestions for improvements. Philscijazz (talk) 15:00, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Format references with visual editor?

I'm not finding an obvious way to format the references with the jump links etc. in visual editor. Is this something that requires going into source editing mode? Philscijazz (talk) 15:16, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Never mind, I found the citation icon in the VE menu. Successfully converted placeholder citations/references to correct format. Philscijazz (talk) 22:29, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Added tags, not sure how to use WikiProject banner shell

I apologize for still being a newbie, but after selecting a few appropriate tags for the draft the requests to add WikiProject banner shell for Physics and Science categories showed up on this Talk page, and I don't know how to do that.

I'll leave it to the editors to resolve this, after submission (at which point due to my COI I will no longer be controlling the page). Philscijazz (talk) 22:12, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Non independent sourcing

@Utopes Greetings, my understanding of Wikipedia:Notability (academics) § General notes would indicate that CV's and other primary sources from academic institutions could be used here for factual statements, once notability has been established according to the specified Subject Notability Guidelines. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 22:44, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks much. I've removed the CV-only citations from the resubmitted draft, just to avoid confusion/controversy here. If the CV is later deemed acceptable, it can easily be found from the primary source, the physics department faculty page, and more detail could be added if appropriate.

I added "award-winning" to the intro as an implicit flag to consider the academic notability criteria. Philscijazz (talk) 22:49, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

To whomever reviews the resubmission, please note that this subject satisfies two of the academic notability criteria, included in the draft.

https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(academics)#Criteria

2. "The person has received a highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level." (APS Polymer Prize, 1977; Humboldt Prize, 1983)

3. "The person has been an elected member of a highly selective and prestigious scholarly society or association..." (APS fellow, 1959) Philscijazz (talk) 03:50, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

@Shushugah:, thanks for the heads up. I may have selected the wrong reasoning then, as it's clear to me now the subject is notable.

Yet, even for the article in its current state, I'd say there is still a high reliance on these primary sources, perhaps more than ideal. Five of the ten come from U of M, (four via umich.edu plus a researchgate profile). Furthermore, there's referencing the articles that Krimm himself wrote (in refs 9 and 10), the opposite of independent. Ref #6 seems biased via the title writing about a "trailblazing career". Really, the only quality sources from my POV are #4 and 5... but admittedly, those are some STRONG sources, as I now see these recognitions are certainly notable. An article may indeed be due here, so I'm glad its been promoted to mainspace. In terms of independent sources it'd certainly be nice to add a few more, but things seem okay right now re: WP:NACADEMIC and meeting the SNG, so thank you once again for the tip. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 13:28, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree promo language like trailblazing should be removed generally. That’s a separate question whether article should exist or not. And independent sourcing is always preferable. WP:Primary usage is permitted within restrictions, and in case of Academia, primary sourcing has even broader latitude. Thank you all for constructive collaboration ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 13:33, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

I've tagged the page with "needing secondary sources", because while the article does indeed seem to meet notability guidelines, I still think it'd be highly beneficial to have some secondary sources incorporated here (as 8/10 of the refs are primary and the 2 that aren't are database entries indicating Krimm's awards and achievements). I've since become aware that Krimm has been wikilinked for a long time, so I'm glad there's finally a starting point for future development of this page. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 13:41, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

I totally understand and embrace all of the caveats here. Frankly, it was a bit of a struggle to find sufficient sourcing to get this together, because to my knowledge there isn't a secondary source with comprehensive bio info at this time.

If indeed the CV (found at the physics faculty page) is deemed acceptable for additional detail, there is another similar source (self-written, university-published) that I also declined to use here, given the concerns expressed by several editors along the way:

https://apps.lib.umich.edu/faculty-memoir/apps.lib.umich.edu/faculty-memoir/faculty/samuel-krimm.html

But these certainly don't address the problem with relying too much on primary sources. That said, I doubt there is anything untrue in either of these sources, but that's a subjective judgment for sure. Philscijazz (talk) 16:39, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Project importance rating

Not asking for an edit. Just wondering why this was not rated mid importance.

People/mid: "All physicists who won major prizes or awards besides the Nobel Prize."

Is the American Physical Society Polymer Physics Prize not considered "major"? (Or the Humboldt?)

Not arguing, just clarifying. I was under the informal/casual impression that APS was considered major, in America. But I could easily be wrong. Philscijazz (talk) 06:26, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

@Philscijazz:. Usually, the AfC reviewers who vet out the incoming drafts set the default importance to "low", (if any value gets assigned). The assessment of "importance" is sometimes "subjective", and the decision of what importance to assign is often designated to the WikiProject participants in question. In this case, this would be participants of WikiProject Physics managing their topic, as such people usually consist of a mix of experience ranging from physics learners to subject-matter experts, or anyone who is familiar with physics and the WP Physics ranking system.

I've found the posted criteria you're referring to (at Wikipedia:WikiProject Physics/Quality Control#Importance scale), and I agree mid-importance is appropriate for Krimm, and is in line with what WikiProject Physics has stated for physics bios.

(As an afterword, any Wikipedia user is able to join any WikiProject on the site, so if you find yourself experienced with physics, feel free to sign your name at WP:PHYS!) Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 14:07, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, still finding my way around this community-of-communities. I'm not experienced enough with physics to be a member of that project (schooling into part of college, only, not my specific degree or career). My task for this was to learn my way into Wikipedia just enough to get the article accepted, if possible (it was subject-driven, as implicit in my COI). Took a few days (with the valuable feedback from experienced folks here, like yourself), and quite a few hours! Now I need a rest...  ;-) Philscijazz (talk) 16:25, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Sources to use

Searching Google Books for his name finds a mix of his publications, which could be listed in a section of this article but should not generally be used as sources for this article, as well as various official reports and proceedings, that could be used as primary sources for biographical details such as academic rank appointments. I also found a short biography in ACS Directory of Graduate Research 1993.

I might search for more sources later if I find the time.

Solomon Ucko (talk) 06:38, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for looking. The local newspapers would be Ann Arbor News and Michigan Daily (UMich student newspaper). But I don't think any profiles were published about him over the years. Philscijazz (talk) 00:51, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Of course, his CV is available from ref 3 and his bio in the memoir ref 2 covers the details of his LS&A positions starting with 1950 postdoc to his full professorship in 1963 (plus other appointments in IST, Engineering, and Rackham). Also a stint as associate dean (LS&A) in the 70s. But as those sources are self-written, maybe too "ultra-primary"? I removed those before resubmitting, because several folks thought it was too close. In any case, those are the details you'd be looking for in secondary resources. Philscijazz (talk) 01:01, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I found various sources on Google Books that are primary but independent, that can be used for purposes such as backing up statements from his CV, e.g.:

• "Appendix C: Advisory Committees for Fiscal Year 1986 (addresses effective as of September 30, 1986): Directorate for Mathematical and Physical Sciences". Annual Report for Fiscal Year. National Science Foundation: 97. 1986.

  Advisory Committee for Materials Research
  [...]
  Samuel Krimm
  Department of Physics
  University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

• Haber, William (June 19, 1967). "The College of Literature, Science, and the Arts". ⁨University of Michigan official publication. 68 (143 "The President's Report for 1965–1966"). Ann Arbor, Michigan: University of Michigan: 73–84. LCCN sf92030002. Google Books EbSfAAAAMAAJ. HathiTrust mdp.39015078737577.

  In conclusion, I wish to express my deep appreciation to my colleagues on the Executive Committee of the College: to Professors [...], Samuel Krimm, [...].

• "July Meeting, 1958: promotions effective with the year 1958–1959: College of Literature, Science, and the Arts". Proceedings of the Board of Regents. Ann Arbor and Dearborn: University of Michigan: 605–606. July 18, 1958. Google Books Y6EqAQAAMAAJ. HathiTrust mdp.49015003101806, mdp.39076006643725.

  Sameul Krimm, Ph.D., from Assistant Professor of Physics to Associate Professor of Physics

• "Macromolecular Science and Engineering (Division 425)". The University of Michigan Bulletin, College of Engineering, 1993–94. 22 (18): 330. June 30, 1993.

  Professor
  [...]
  Samuel Krimm, Ph.D.

• "They Rise In Professorial Rank". The Michigan Alumnus. Vol. LXI, no. 3. The Alumni Association of the University of Michigan. October 16, 1954. p. 21.

  TO ASSISTANT PROFESSOR
  College of Literature, Science and the Arts: [...], Samuel Krimm (Physics), [...]

• "FACULTY AWARDS". Michigan Ensian. 91. Students at The University of Michigan: 95. 1987.

  Distinguished Faculty Achievement Award
  [...]
  Samuel Krimm, Physics

• etc.

Note: This list is in no way complete. Relevant sources, content within these sources, metadata about these sources, and content providers for these sources may be omitted arbitrarily. In other words, do your own searching too. I'd recommend searching both Google Books and HathiTrust for this; since University of Michigan runs HathiTrust, they make most of the content they publish publicly accessible there.

Solomon Ucko (talk) 22:13, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Very helpful, thanks. Since I have declared COI I can't edit the page directly, but I hope others may follow up on this. Philscijazz (talk) 22:35, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

APS awards category?

I see categories added for APS fellows and Humboldt awards, but is there also a category for APS awards? If so, that would seem appropriate, as well. Philscijazz (talk) 00:33, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Ah, I see the Polymer Physics Prize is wikilinked but the page does not exist:

https://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=The_Polymer_Physics_Prize&action=edit&redlink=1 Philscijazz (talk) 00:44, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Wikilinked from here:

https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/List_of_American_Physical_Society_prizes_and_awards#P Philscijazz (talk) 00:48, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Categories - New Jersey

The New Jersey categories may not be particularly pertinent. While the subject was born in NJ, he was raised in Brooklyn. It is misleading to describe him as "from" New Jersey. While there aren't secondary sources to verify this, it happens to be true (it's one reason he went to Brooklyn Poly for undergrad). I wouldn't suggest replacing these categories with Brooklyn-related categories at this time, due to sourcing, but I might suggest removing the NJ-related categories. Philscijazz (talk) 20:31, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

The only period when he was arguably legitimately "from" New Jersey was 1947-1950 during grad school. Before then he was "from" Brooklyn, and after that he was "from" Ann Arbor. Philscijazz (talk) 20:39, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Additional independent primary sources

https://rackham.umich.edu/faculty-and-staff/awards/distinguished-faculty-achievement-awards/

Distinguished Faculty Achievement Awards 1986 Philscijazz (talk) 04:34, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Appointed Associate Dean for Research 1972-1974

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/acw7513.1969.001/1394

Extended to 1975

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/acw7513.1972.001/907

Chairman of Biophysics Research Division (IST)

initial appointment 1976-79

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/acw7513.1975.001/495

reappointed 1979-82

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/acw7513.1978.001/384

reappointed 1983-86

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/acw7513.1981.001/863

Retirement from teaching, emeritus status 2001

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/acw7513.2000.001/306

Director, Biophysics Research Center, 1959

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/acw7513.1957.001/1171

Promotion from Instructor to Assistant Professor 1954

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/acw7513.1954.001/54

Promotion from Assistant to Associate Professor 1958

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/acw7513.1957.001/618

Promotion from Associate to Full Professor 1963

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/acw7513.1960.001/1207 Philscijazz (talk) 05:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Better link, emeritus status 2001

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/acw7513.2000.001/322 Philscijazz (talk) 05:26, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Note: gap in Chairman BRD 82-83 due to sabbatical in Germany (cf. Humboldt prize). Philscijazz (talk) 05:35, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Postdoctoral fellow 1950

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/ACW7513.1948.001/1110

postdoc extended 1951

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/ACW7513.1951.001/73 Philscijazz (talk) 20:35, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Resigned postdoc (to become instructor) 1952

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/u/umregproc/ACW7513.1951.001/687

Couldn't find explicit appointment to instructor in Regents book 1952... Philscijazz (talk) 20:44, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Stub exists for Noemi Mirkin

https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Noemi_Mirkin

Oversight in not searching for this originally. Should be wikilinked from her name in final paragraph.

Due to DCOI I can't do this edit myself, hoping someone else can put it in. Philscijazz (talk) 23:07, 6 September 2024 (UTC)